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<p>RIRs should not take in consideration if there was a financial
transaction between two organizations or not in order to proceed
with the transfer (not talking about M&A). That should be an
irrelevant detail to the RIR.<br>
<br>
In a simplified way RIRs should restrict themselves to check:<br>
<br>
1) Did the transfer request came from the rightful resource holder
? If yes, then.<br>
2) Does the transfer request comply with the current RIR policies
? If yes then pay the RIR fees and register the resources to the
new resource holder.</p>
<p>In this sense if there was a financial transaction the current
resource holder should only request the RIR to transfer the
resources when he is sure whatever has been agreed to be paid was
already done.</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/10/2020 12:36, Mike Burns wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Fernando,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for your thoughts, but there is no
needs test in RIPE of course.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">And in fact, some entity did come to RIPE
with a valid court order that said “Register is because I paid
for it.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So there were no policy issues in that
case.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In ARIN, we can suppose the buyer was able
to justify, but what happens if the buyer pays and does not
get the addresses?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If the buyer is in Canada, can a Canadian
judge order ARIN to register the blocks to the buyer?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">And the more important question as to
whether ARIN would re-register blocks back to a seller who
doesn’t get paid?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">That would involve policy questions, I
think.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<br>
Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> ARIN-PPML
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"><arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fernando
Frediani<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 05, 2020 10:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] RIPE enforcing
court-ordered "right to register"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>I am not sure exactly about RIPE but any court must take in
consideration that the RIR policies must apply for the "buyer"
to have the right to register it. Since in most RIRs the
golden rule is (and must keep being) be able to justify for
the addresses being received (either via a donation or a
purchase).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Nobody should ever be able to come to the RIR and say:
"Register it because I paid for". The community who is the one
that matters and make the rules is interested the addresses
being transferred are going be really used for its final
propose and get people connected to the internet, therefore it
has a justification and not less important to be fair with all
others.<br>
Just having the right to register addresses because it paid
for it doesn't make sense and should be opposed as much as
possible by all RIRs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Thankfully RIPE seems to go in that direction when they say
in the statement: "<i>Finally, it’s worth noting that each
order will be reviewed on a case by case basis. If we
believe that an order or the third party seeking to enforce
the order does not comply with RIPE policies or RIPE NCC
procedures, we reserve the right to dispute any transfer.</i>"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>My understanding is that ARIN should only obey orders from a
court in the country it is registered, as other RIRs and other
organizations.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 05/10/2020 11:38, Mike Burns wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello List,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://labs.ripe.net/Members/ciaran_byrne/seizure-of-the-right-to-registration-of-ipv4-addresses"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://labs.ripe.net/Members/ciaran_byrne/seizure-of-the-right-to-registration-of-ipv4-addresses</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">RIPE has enforced a court order regarding
an IPv4 transfer where a buyer who had paid for the
addresses and complied with RIPE policies sought court
protection of his right to register those addresses.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Note that this is not an ownership right
but still a right that can be court-enforced, in Europe at
least.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It has always been my understanding that
ARIN would enforce a court order that it deemed legally
sound.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I like the idea that a buyer’s rights can
be protected in a court action and that ARIN would abide by
any court order demanding registration.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My question is whether ARIN would accept
a valid court order from any country in the ARIN region, in
the manner in which the German court’s order was enforced in
the Netherlands, where RIPE is registered.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(Assuming the hypothetical is a buyer
with a valid contract specifying a transfer according to
ARIN policy, and that the buyer received a valid court order
from their jurisdiction requiring registration.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">And what if the seller did not get paid
after a transfer, and a court order was issued to return the
registration rights to the seller, would ARIN be able to
effect that return to the seller given policy requiring a
demonstration of need, and despite the seller having
participated in transfers within the prior year?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can we simply assume that the legal
structures within which ARIN operates supersede any ARIN
policy restrictions?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Not sure if this is better on
arin-discuss list, so I will post there as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In IPv4 transfers, escrow is normally
used, but if simple court-protections are a viable recourse
to settle disputes, it may be that escrow services are less
a requirement for a safe transfer.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<br>
Mike Burns<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">IPTrading.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>ARIN-PPML<o:p></o:p></pre>
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