<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I don’t construe it that way, but I have no objection to either of Scott’s suggestions, either.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My concern is for the end effect of the proposed policy which is the same with any of the proposed wordings.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 14, 2020, at 09:10 , Scott Leibrand <<a href="mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com" class="">scottleibrand@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">"Summarily" seems punitive, and doesn't seem necessary in this context. Perhaps just remove it and just leave "will be removed from the waitlist"? Or replace it with something like "immediately".<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-Scott</div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 8:50 AM Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">I support this addition and support the policy with the addition. </div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">Owen</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On May 14, 2020, at 08:37, Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">
<p class="">I support this proposal.<br class="">
It's fair to everybody and helps avoid fraud.</p><p class="">Regards<br class="">
Fernando<br class="">
</p>
<div class="">On 14/05/2020 11:56, Kat Hunter wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">After making adjustments to the text, ARIN staff
and legal conducted a new staff and legal review on 2019-1. You
can view the updated review here: <a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_1/#staff-and-legal-review-30-april-2020" target="_blank" class="">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_1/#staff-and-legal-review-30-april-2020</a> .
It has been suggested that
<div class="">"<span class="">It is worth
noting that this Draft Policy does not include the removal
of pending ARIN Waitlist requests for organizations that act
as source organizations for 8.2, 8.3, or 8.4 transfers,
which would allow them to conduct such transfers while
waitlisted, and receive resources from the ARIN Waitlist
immediately thereafter, as all organizations on the ARIN
Waitlist have already applied, and are pending fulfillment.</span></div><p class="">The text is clear
and understandable, and can be implemented as written."</p><p class="">After some
discussion with some members of the AC, it was suggested that
a new subsection is added to section 8 which would allow for
additional clarity from this policy and some future cleanup
via other future policy.</p><p class="">"8.6 Waitlist
Restrictions</p><p class="">Any organization
which is on the wait list and submits a request to be the
source of a transfer under any provision in section 8 will be
summarily removed from the wait list."</p><p class="">I'd like to get the
community's thoughts on the addition. With this addition,
would you support the policy as written? </p><p class="">-Kat Hunter</p>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:24
PM Kat Hunter <<a href="mailto:takokat81@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">takokat81@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Owen, I think this is a good suggestion. I've
updated the month designations in the other section to 90
days as, I agree, it is more precise when we are discussing
shorter amounts of time. Additionally, I've taken your
suggestion on wordsmithing that section and adjusted it just
a little.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">"
An organization which serves as the source of an 8.2 IPv4
transfer will not be allowed to apply for IPv4 address
space under section 4.1.8 ARIN Waitlist for a period of 36
months following said transfer unless the recipient
organization remains a subsidiary, parent company, or
under common ownership with the source organization.". </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I wanted to make sure I specified that this was in
reference to IPv4 and that the organization also remains a
subsidiary, parent company, or under common ownership.
Thank you for the input. Additionally I'd like to see if
there is anyone else that still supports or no longer
longer supports this policy as written.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Kat Hunter</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at
4:42 AM Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" class="">owen@delong.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br class="">
<br class="">
> On Mar 9, 2020, at 06:26 , ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" class="">info@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> On 20 February 2020, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC)
reverted the following Recommended Draft Policy to Draft
Policy Status due to community feedback recommending
significant substantive changes.:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> * Draft Policy ARIN-2019-1: Clarify Section 4 IPv4
Request Requirements<br class="">
> <br class="">
> The text has since been revised in response to that
feedback.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Revised text is below and can be found at:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> <a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_1/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_1/</a><br class="">
> <br class="">
> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on
PPML. The AC will evaluate the discussion in order to
assess the conformance of this Draft Policy with ARIN's
Principles of Internet number resource policy as stated in
the Policy Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these
principles are:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource
Administration<br class="">
> * Technically Sound<br class="">
> * Supported by the Community<br class="">
> <br class="">
> The PDP can be found at:<br class="">
> <a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/</a><br class="">
> <br class="">
> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be
found at:<br class="">
> <a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/</a><br class="">
> <br class="">
> Regards,<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Sean Hopkins<br class="">
> Policy Analyst<br class="">
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)<br class="">
> <br class="">
> <br class="">
> <br class="">
> <br class="">
> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-1: Clarify Section 4 IPv4
Request Requirements<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Problem Statement:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Per a recent ARIN Policy Experience Report and
resulting AC discussion, it was noted that the language of
Section 4.1.8 is imprecise in that it can be interpreted
as specifying a waiting period for any allocation
activity, as opposed to being intended to limit only the
frequency of IPv4 allocations under Section 4.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> The same Policy Experience Report also noted that
ARIN staff has observed a pattern where an organization
transfers space under NRPM Section 8.2 to a specified
recipient, and then immediately applies for space under
Section 4. This activity appears to be speculative in
nature and not consistent with sound address management
policy.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> The updated language in this proposal addresses the
two issues above, as both concerns can be addressed via
modifications to the same section and sentence thereof of
the NRPM:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Clarifies the waiting period to only prohibit
requests for IPv4 allocations under Section 4 of the NRPM<br class="">
> Disallows organizations that have transferred space
to other parties within the past 36 months from applying
for additional IPv4 space under NRPM Section 4.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Policy Statement:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Current language found in NRPM Section 4.1.8 - Unmet
Requests:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Repeated requests, in a manner that would circumvent
4.1.6, are not allowed: an organization currently on the
waitlist must wait 90 days after receiving a distribution
from the waitlist before applying for additional space.
ARIN, at its sole discretion, may waive this requirement
if the requester can document a change in circumstances
since their last request that could not have been
reasonably foreseen at the time of the original request,
and which now justifies additional space. Qualified
requesters will also be advised of the availability of the
transfer mechanism in section 8.3 as an alternative
mechanism to obtain IPv4 addresses.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Proposed new language 4.1.8:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Multiple requests are not allowed: an organization
currently on the waitlist must wait 90 days after
receiving a distribution from the waitlist or IPv4 number
resources as a recipient of any transfer before applying
for additional space. ARIN, at its sole discretion, may
waive this requirement if the requester can document a
change in circumstances since their last request that
could not have been reasonably foreseen at the time of the
original request, and which now justifies additional
space. Qualified requesters will also be advised of the
availability of the transfer mechanism in section 8.3 as
an alternative mechanism to obtain IPv4 addresses.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Restrictions apply for entities who have conducted
recent resource transfers. These restrictions are
specified in Section 8 for each relevant transfer
category.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Add the following under 8.2. Mergers, Acquisitions,
and Reorganizations:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> After completion of an 8.2 transfer an organization
may only apply for IPv4 address resources under Section
4.1.8. ARIN Waitlist if they have transferred IPv4 address
resources under section 8.2 and the recipient organization
is and remains a subsidiary, parent company, or an
organization under common ownership of the same parent
company as the organization that the IPv4 resources were
transferred from. This restriction will last for 36 months
and is applied to the organization that the IPv4 resources
were transferred from and not the recipient.<br class="">
<br class="">
This paragraph cries out desperately for wordsmithing. It
is very difficult to parse.<br class="">
<br class="">
Perhaps:<br class="">
<br class="">
An organization which serves as the source of an 8.2
transfer will not be allowed to apply for IPv4 address
space under section 4.1.8 ARIN Waitlist for a period of 36
months following said transfer unless the recipient
organization remains under common ownership with the
source organization.<br class="">
<br class="">
> Add the following under 8.3. Transfers Between
Specified Recipients Within the ARIN Region and under the
Conditions on the source of the transfer:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> The source entity will not be allowed to apply for
IPv4 address space under Section 4.1.8. ARIN Waitlist for
a period of 36 months following the transfer of IPv4
address resources to another party.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Under conditions on the recipient:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> If applicable the recipient will be removed from the
ARIN Waitlist and will not be allowed to reapply under
section 4.1.8. ARIN Waitlist for a period of 3 months.<br class="">
<br class="">
This should read “90 days” instead of “3 months” to retain
consistency with 4.1.8.<br class="">
<br class="">
> Add the following under 8.4. Transfers Between
Specified Recipients Within the ARIN Region and under the
Conditions on the source of the transfer:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> The source entity will not be allowed to apply for
IPv4 address space under Section 4.1.8. ARIN Waitlist for
a period of 36 months following the transfer of IPv4
address resources to another party.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Under conditions on the recipient:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> If applicable the recipient will be removed from the
ARIN Waitlist and will not be allowed to reapply under
section 4.1.8. ARIN Waitlist for a period of 3 months.<br class="">
<br class="">
This should read “90 days” instead of “3 months” to retain
consistency with 4.1.8.<br class="">
<br class="">
> <br class="">
> Comments:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> This proposal incorporates two related policy goals,
combined for convenience in one proposal as both can
addressed via modification of the same section and
sentence of the NRPM. During ARIN 43 it was proposed to
the community that the two policy statements were
severable, however, there was sufficient community support
behind keeping both.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> There have been updates to section 4 since the
beginning of the work on this policy. Text has been
updated to reflect current NRPM.<br class="">
> <br class="">
> There was significant community support to change the
word “repeated” as it was vague. Additionally, there was
concerned that a company may perform an M&A transfer
to itself/parent company and the original proposed
language would exclude those companies from being able to
apply to the waitlist. After the addition of the new
merger and acquisition language, staff and legal
recommended that the restrictions for applying to the
waitlist for participants of the transfer market be added
to the appropriate section in the Section 8 of the NRPM.
Organizations should be informed of how their activities
in the transfer market will impact them in reference to
applying to the waitlist. These changes were to make it
easier for staff and the community to understand these
requirements.<br class="">
<br class="">
While I understand the desire to do this, I must point out
that having the same rule specified in multiple places in
the NRPM tends to lead to inconsistencies down the road.<br class="">
<br class="">
It is not at all unusual in this situation for a future
policy proposal to miss one of these duplicate statements
of the same rule and update only a subset of them. Even
the above inconsistency in this proposal between 90 days
in section 4 and 3 months for the same thing twice in
section 8 serves as an example of the perils of
duplicating the same rule in multiple locations.<br class="">
<br class="">
I suggest, therefore, that instead of duplicating the
rules, we reference section 4.1.8 in each of those cases
as follows:<br class="">
<br class="">
Recipients should be aware of the impact of
transfers on their ability to apply and/or obtain space
from the waitlist. These are spelled out in section 4.1.8.<br class="">
<br class="">
This provides clarity that there is an impact to be
considered and clear guidance as to where to find that
impact without abetting inconsistency.<br class="">
<br class="">
Owen<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
ARIN-PPML<br class="">
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if you experience any issues.<br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
<fieldset class=""></fieldset>
<pre class="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<span class="">_______________________________________________</span><br class=""><span class="">ARIN-PPML</span><br class=""><span class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to</span><br class=""><span class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).</span><br class=""><span class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:</span><br class=""><span class=""><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank" class="">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a></span><br class=""><span class="">Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" class="">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.</span><br class=""></div></blockquote></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">
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You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">
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</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">ARIN-PPML<br class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class=""><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" class="">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>