<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 13, 2020, at 08:55 , Andrew Dul <<a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net" class="">andrew.dul@quark.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">David, Thanks for your comments. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br class=""></div><div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">On 3/26/2020 4:08 PM, David Farmer wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAN-Dau1LoHiXiwdbMqukUbO6pOvh9swK_1DBM2L-2rHRToy9Vg@mail.gmail.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">I support this policy as written. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">However, I recommend a minor editorial change and a small change to the policy;</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">1. I would prefer to not use "smaller" or "less" when referring to /24 or longer prefixes, such use is somewhat ambiguous, this has been discussed many times on PPML.</div></div></blockquote><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Noted.</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Yes, though I’m not 100% sure that the conversation settled on consensus for those particular approaches.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Personally, I think that when we are discussing amount of address space, we should use “More than”, “Less than”, “Larger than”, “Smaller than”, and refer not to “/24”, but “equivalent of /24” or “/24 equivalent(s)”.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>However, when we are specifically talking about prefix length (i.e. exactly a specific prefix, not some collection of 1 or more blocks adding up to X amount of address space), we should use the terms “longer” or “shorter” (e.g. "The longest prefix ARIN will issue in IPv4 is a /24”, “Requests for IPv6 prefixes shorter than /16 will be treated as multiple /16s”).</div><div><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAN-Dau1LoHiXiwdbMqukUbO6pOvh9swK_1DBM2L-2rHRToy9Vg@mail.gmail.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">2. I really like the idea of automatically increasing the IPv6 allocation to /36 when the IPv4 allocation increases beyond /24. How about also automatically increasing the IPv6 allocation to /32 when the IPv4 allocation increases beyond /22?</div></div></blockquote><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">The goal of this policy is to create IPv6 allocation sizes such that a current IPv4 organization which is currently 3X-small can obtain an IPv6 allocation without their fees going up. Today this issue only occurs with 3x-small. If we were to implement this other change I believe this would cause the text to move beyond the current problem statement. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></p></div></blockquote><div>I think this is actually a good idea. I suggest checking with RS on whether he’s amenable to amending the problem statement.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>If not, I will work with David off line to create a second proposal to address this issue. The reason we have /36s in the first place is sort of the next rung up of the same problem, so applying the same automation to that situation really does make a lot of sense and, in my mind is within scope of the spirit of the problem statement, even if not within the letter of the law for same.</div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">I will also like to note, that this issue could also be remedied by the board adopting a small change to the fee schedule such that the 3x-small IPv6 holdings do not force a change in category for 3x-small organizations. This would cause 3x-small organization's fees to be primarily determined by their IPv4 holdings not their IPv6 holdings.</p></div></blockquote>We/ve tried to ask the board to take this approach in the past with zero success. <br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">While the community doesn't have purview over fees we have input into that process. If this is something that we would strongly like to prefer as a solution to this problem. We can make this as a strong suggestion to the board for their consideration.</p></div></blockquote>Mr. Quixote, Windmill… Windmill, Mr. Quixote.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Andrew<br class=""></p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></p><blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAN-Dau1LoHiXiwdbMqukUbO6pOvh9swK_1DBM2L-2rHRToy9Vg@mail.gmail.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks</div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:22 PM ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">info@arin.net</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Draft Policy ARIN-2020-3: IPv6 Nano-allocations<br class=""><br class="">Problem Statement:<br class=""><br class="">ARIN's fee structure provides a graduated system wherein organizations<br class="">pay based on the amount of number resources they consume.<br class=""><br class="">In the case of the very smallest ISPs, if a 3X-Small ISP (with a /24 or<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">smaller of IPv4) gets the present minimal-sized IPv6 allocation (a /36),<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">its annual fees will double from $250 to $500/year.<br class=""><br class="">According to a Policy Experience Report presented by Registration<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Services to the AC at its annual workshop in January 2020, this<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">represents a disincentive to IPv6 adoption with a substantial fraction<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">of so-situated ISPs saying "no thanks" and abandoning their request for<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">IPv6 number resources when informed of the impact on their annual fees.<br class=""><br class="">This can be addressed by rewriting subsection 6.5.2(b). Initial<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Allocation Size to allow allocation of a /40 to only the smallest ISPs<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">upon request, and adding a new clause 6.5.2(g) to cause an automatic<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">upgrade to at least a /36 in the case where the ISP is no longer 3X-Small.<br class=""><br class="">Reserving /40s only for organizations initially expanding into IPv6 from<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">an initial sliver of IPv4 space will help to narrowly address the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">problem observed by Registration Services while avoiding unintended<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">consequences by accidentally giving a discount for undersized allocations.<br class=""><br class="">Policy Statement:<br class=""><br class="">Replace the current 6.5.2(b) with the following:<br class=""><br class="">b. In no case shall an LIR receive smaller than a /32 unless they<br class="">specifically request a /36 or /40.<br class=""><br class="">In order to be eligible for a /40, an ISP must meet the following<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">requirements:<br class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>* Hold IPv4 direct allocations totaling a /24 or less (to include zero)<br class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>* Hold IPv4 reassignments/reallocations totaling a /22 or less (to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">include zero)<br class=""><br class="">In no case shall an ISP receive more than a /16 initial allocation.<br class=""><br class="">Add 6.5.2(g) as follows:<br class=""><br class="">g. An LIR that requests a smaller /36 or /40 allocation is entitled to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">expand the allocation to any nibble aligned size up to /32 at any time<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">without renumbering or additional justification. /40 allocations shall<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">be automatically upgraded to /36 if at any time said LIR's IPv4 direct<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">allocations exceed a /24. Expansions up to and including a /32 are not<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">considered subsequent allocations, however any expansions beyond /32 are<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">considered subsequent allocations and must conform to section 6.5.3.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Downgrades of any IPv6 allocation to less than a /36 are not permitted<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">regardless of the ISP's current or former IPv4 number resource holdings.<br class=""><br class="">Comments:<br class=""><br class="">The intent of this policy proposal is to make IPv6 adoption at the very<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">bottom end expense-neutral for the ISP and revenue-neutral for ARIN. The<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">author looks forward to a future era wherein IPv6 is the dominant<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">technology and IPv4 is well in decline and considered optional leading<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">the Community to conclude that sunsetting this policy is prudent in the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">interests of avoiding an incentive to request undersized IPv6 allocations.<br class=""><br class="">Timetable for implementation: Immediate<br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">ARIN-PPML<br class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class=""><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">info@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.<br class=""></blockquote></div><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">===============================================<br class="">David Farmer <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br class="">Networking & Telecommunication Services<br class="">Office of Information Technology<br class="">University of Minnesota <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br class="">Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br class="">===============================================<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div></div><br class=""><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre></blockquote><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></p><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; 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