<div dir="ltr">I'm sympathetic to the pricing transparency argument. However, how does ARIN know what is reported to it is actually correct? ARIN isn't a direct party to the financial transactions, so it has no direct knowledge to determine the accuracy of what is reported to it. Maybe if an escrow agent is involved, they could be trusted third parties that ARIN could believe, I suspect they would be violating banking laws if they report false information.<div><br></div><div>Furthermore, financial transactions are not the basis for and are not associated with all transfers, yes they are for many if not most, but not all. I know for a fact, a number of transfers have been made from a non-profit resource holder that no longer operates a network and no longer wants to manage reassignments on behalf of its former customers that were made in the '90s when it still operated a network and is now transferring the resources in question to the users of the reassignments, without any financial transaction being involved. </div><div><br></div><div>So, as I said I'm sympathetic to the pricing transparency argument. However, what kind of transparency would untrustworthy data actually provide? In this case, I'm afraid untrustworthy or potentially bad data is worse than no data at all. </div><div><br></div><div>Is voluntarily reporting good enough? If it is, then why involve ARIN in the first place? If voluntarily reporting is good enough, have the brokers serve this function, as IPv4.global is already doing. At least the brokers are a party to the financial transactions and have direct knowledge that ARIN doesn't currently have.</div><div><br></div><div>If voluntary reporting isn't good enough, how is the accuracy of what is reported to ARIN validated? How do we ensure the trustworthiness of the data? I think at the very least mandatory reporting would need to involve the penalty of purgery somehow. Maybe requiring officer attestation or notarized documentation of the price paid would get us there, I'm not sure.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 8:38 PM Michel Py <<a href="mailto:michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us" target="_blank">michel@arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Dear ARIN members,<br>
<br>
I am moving here (where it belongs) a thread that started on nanog this week-end.<br>
Long story made short, I was suggesting that ARIN collects and publish financial data associated with NPRM 8.3 and possibly more transfers.<br>
Owen stated that he was "ambivalent" about it, which I interpret as a good state of mind for a dialog.<br>
<br>
Problem statement :<br>
At least one broker makes available the price paid by the recipient of transfers :<br>
<a href="https://auctions.ipv4.global/prior-sales" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://auctions.ipv4.global/prior-sales</a><br>
<br>
My idea is as follows : I think this brings transparency to the market, and that ARIN should collect the data and publish it, so we have a more accurate picture of what the market is, and not only partial data from a small subset of brokers. We need better data.<br>
<br>
I like the idea of transparency. It may not be fashionable to say so, but auctions.ipv4.global somehow is the eBay of the transfer market and I like it.<br>
<br>
As a "buyer" I want to "buy" (note the quotes) a block of IPv4 addresses.<br>
Transparency on the market is good to me, because if I do my homework right I can expect a reasonably good estimate of what it is going to cost me.<br>
<br>
As a "seller" I want to "sell" (note the quotes) a block of IPv4 addresses.<br>
Transparency on the market is good to me, because if I do my homework right I can expect a reasonably good estimate of what I can get out of it.<br>
<br>
I think that there was a pretty good understanding that, if ARIN did not embrace the transfer market, there would have been a black market anyway.<br>
My suggestion is : transparent pricing is the next step. I am not suggesting that ARIN becomes the eBay of market transfers, but I am suggesting that ARIN publishes data about market pricing.<br>
<br>
Your comments are welcome.<br>
<br>
Michel.<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr">===============================================<br>David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota <br>2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>=============================================== </div>