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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Martin,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Are we regulating for price now?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Your numbers seem accurate to me.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<br>Mike<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Martin Hannigan <hannigan@gmail.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 01, 2019 1:53 PM<br><b>To:</b> Mike Burns <mike@iptrading.com><br><b>Cc:</b> Jim <mysidia@gmail.com>; John Santos <john@egh.com>; ARIN-PPML List <arin-ppml@arin.net><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-18: LIR/ISP Re-Assignment to Non-Connected Networks<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 1:37 PM Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal>Jim wrote:<br>I am opposed to proposal that ARIN should in general be facilitating<br>entities<br>being able to obtain from ARIN permanent allocations made to<br>support temporary use for non-connected networks. It sounds like<br>creating an inviting environment for potential spammers and fraud, and<br>LIRs/ISPs should not be involved in this.<br><br><br>Hi Jim,<br><br>More hand-waving about spam and fraud that doesn't exist and ignoring the<br>obvious need that does exist. A market has arisen to meet the need, that<br>proves the need exists. A google search confirms this for everybody. But<br>the environment you exists and has not generated spam and fraud.<br><br>This is why I point to RIPE. They have what you refer to as "policy<br>facilitating enties being able to obtain from (the RIR) permanent<br>allocations made to support temporary use for non-connected networks." You<br>say this will create an inviting environment for more of the spooky<br>consequences I have heard about for almost 10 years now. Spooky consequences<br>absent from RIPE. Or can you find them there?<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I'm opposed to it, but for different reasons. I worry about the cash flows building against leased numbers and creating a situation where it increases costs on the transfer market by competition for space. I'm seeing /24's at $90 MRC. That's roughly $4 per address per year leased vs. $21 on the transfer market. I agree, probably not abused any more than anything else. For me, it sends the wrong message transition wise.<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal><br>Can it be more clear? RIPE has had NO NEEDS TEST FOR YEARS. We have<br>performed the experiment, why ignore the results?<br>If I want to become a Lessor, yet another reason to incorporate in Europe, I<br>guess. There is no restriction in RIPE in the purchasing of addresses for<br>the purpose of leasing them out, nor for the leasing part. <br>A recipe for registry-shopping and address-flight.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I mostly agree with you. RIPE is a different region though and has different allocation patterns and concerns about their registry inventory. RIPE policy makers seem to feel that exhausting and a liberal market is the fastest way to transition.At least that's how I read it sometimes. I'm not going to judge if they are right or wrong. ARIN network operators tend to want to be more independent and there are many examples where the world goes left and NA goes right, infrastructure wise. Just the nature of the beast. I don't think everyone understands that there actually is common policy (via the ASO process and IANA) and then globally coordinated, more like a treaty. Its just not everything. But there is more in common than not.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-M<<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal><br>Regards,<br>Mike<br><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></div></div></body></html>