<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">I think it is possible that many organizations are or will be fully invested in ipv6 but will announce little or none of it to the Internet at large. Most of my customers don’t announce most of their internal IPv4 networks and I can see no reason why they wouldn’t do the same with IPv6. So I disagree with the requirement to announce IPV6 as a prerequisite to receiving from the various ipv4 pools. Announcement doesn’t correlate with use.<div><br><br><div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Sent from my iPad</div><div dir="ltr"><br>On Aug 28, 2019, at 9:19 AM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 27, 2019, at 22:07 , Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">I may be wrong but it looks like that for some people at some
point the only thing that matters is the sensation someone may be
trying to tell them how to do things than if IPv6 should be
deployed or not.<br class="">
Right, how long more will we be in this back and forth of "I know
I have to deploy IPv6 but I will do on my own time" ? How long
more we will hear things like "there is no other way out of
transfer market" and "it is natural thing to buy more IPv4 to be
in business" and then right after "Don't tell me I have to deploy
IPv6".</p><p class="">There have been times in the past when deploying IPv6 had
challenges, concerns or limitations, but now a days let's be
honest, there are probably none. </p></div></div></blockquote>In fairness, this is not entirely true. The following challenges still remain in some situations:</div><div><br class=""></div><div>+<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Providers with a heavy reliance on MPLS for traffic engineering have no good path to managing IPv6 traffic engineering with their existing tools.</div><div>+<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>There are still a significant number of providers that are not offering IPv6 to their customers</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>There are workarounds for this, but they come with significant tradeoffs and in some cases real costs.</div><div>+<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Human Factors</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Perception that NAT==Security</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Limited familiarly with IPv6</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Fear of the unknown</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Other priorities</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Perceived lack of a business case</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Engineers not well able to articulate the business case to the C-Suite</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>-<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Entrenched software base that is not yet ported, especially custom internal applications and large legacy systems</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I’m not saying that these issues are insurmountable, and I’m not saying we don’t need to deploy IPv6. Indeed, I’ve been beating the IPv6 drum pretty hard for many years now. However, statements like “there are probably no remaining challenges” do not reflect reality and reduce the credibility of your other statements in this regard.<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">We are in 2019, nearly 2020 and
it seems there are still a significant amount of people that
wishes to keep supporting the transfer market rather than do the
obvious that we all know will make the Internet ecosystem to keep
evolving, perhaps with less conflicts.<br class="">
And what Albert is proposing to discuss is fair and very much
reasonable, nothing out of order: simply the organization to show
it is doing its job (or is there anyone the believes IPv6 is still
just accessory and can wait another 20 years ?) in order that is
can use the transfer mechanism of IPv4. He didn't suggest anything
different than that.<br class=""></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>There’s lots of monetary interest in the transfer market, and where there’s a perception of money to be made, voices and advocacy will follow. This is an unfortunate side-effect of capitalism and market economies.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I never said Albert was out of line, but I do not think Albert’s proposal will yield the desired results, nor do I think it is good registry policy. (See my previous comments on the proposal).</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""></div><br class=""></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>ARIN-PPML</span><br><span>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to</span><br><span>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).</span><br><span>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:</span><br><span><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a></span><br><span>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.</span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>