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    Hello<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16/08/2019 12:41, Mike Burns wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:01ca01d55449$023485c0$069d9140$@iptrading.com">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Hi Fernando,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <clip><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">But absent
            the free pool, that mechanism is not necessary and fair, it
            is the opposite of that.  In fact, you seem to be injecting
            items that could be considered obviously unfair, such as
            favoring new entrants and smaller companies. </span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    This is quiet obvious for me, this is the way it has been done so
    far in other RIRs and I don't think they and the community who
    developed such policies are wrong. It doesn't take much thought to
    consider that existing companies who already hold IP space have ways
    to keep going,  re-use and optimize the use of IPv4 in order to make
    more for less and as time goes it will be natural to use them more
    for transition mechanisms and survive. New entrants would be hugely
    discriminated if they become an AS and have to go straight to the
    market. Pushing them to it would be a way for current holders to
    protect themselves from new competition creating artificial
    barriers, using a wrong mechanism and also to not treat them the
    same way they were treated when they first asked they IP space in
    the past. Therefore is pretty fair and correct to assign space only
    to new entrants and other situations allowed by sections like 4.10.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:01ca01d55449$023485c0$069d9140$@iptrading.com">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I disagree
            with your opinions about markets being unnatural and not
            ideal, I hold the opposite view. Markets are the ideal
            method of fairly distributing scarce and valuable assets,
            and that is why they naturally evolve in every society.<br>
          </span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    Of course you do. I apologize if this argument bothers you, but it
    is a fact to me that trying to build such policies to push people
    that way only favors transfer market, not organizations and not the
    internet ecosystem, not for new companies to exist in the Internet.<br>
    Market is far from an ideal method for distributing scarce resources
    simply because who has more money will take them all and not
    necessary who need the most and new entrants are the case.<br>
    If we were talking about a private resource that companies
    purchased, own and is not irrevocable fine it belong to them and
    they may sell for whatever amount they like, but we are talking
    about IP space which is very different.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:01ca01d55449$023485c0$069d9140$@iptrading.com">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I also agree
            with the executive board decision to shut the waiting list
            while at the same time observe that this unpalatable action
            was only required due to the fraud magnet which is the
            waiting list.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Opening an
            office in Africa is to access the free pool remaining in
            AFRINIC and is unrelated to inter-RIR transfers.</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    If they do and use the addresses in Africa region then no problem at
    all.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:01ca01d55449$023485c0$069d9140$@iptrading.com">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I reject the
            ad-hominem implication that this proposal is designed to
            favor my business. Please consider my arguments and not your
            personal interpretations of my motives in any future
            replies. This is a frequent occurrence for me as a broker
            and it bothers me.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Regards,<br>
            Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
                style="color:windowtext"> ARIN-PPML
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"><arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fernando
                Frediani<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 16, 2019 11:17 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy
                ARIN-2019-17: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved
                Pool<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p>Hello Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>I didn't say those things, you are putting words in my mouth.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>What I said is that in current time things like new entrants,
          critical infrastructure, and usage like the 4.10 pool should
          be prioritized for various reasons and organizations under
          these circumstances should not be directed to the market as
          their first option therefore RIRs should not shape their
          policies to push people to the transfer market which is not a
          natural thing and ideally should not exist. I however
          understand the need of it new a days and that this should be a
          option for organizations who already hold IP space.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>With regards the shutdown of the waiting list by the
          executive board I personally consider that a correct decision.
          They have detected a fraud and risk of that happening again
          and it is their role to do such things in order to protect the
          RIR and ourselves in order to make sure that a few
          organizations needs is not on the top of everybody needs. The
          favoring of small members is another correct thing as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>With regards opening a office in Africa to get "free"
          addresses fortunately the RIR doesn't allow inter-RIR
          transfers and according to what have been discussed in the
          list so far they are not willing to allow it anytime soon.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>There is no sense to put new entrants to get space from 4.4
          or 4.10 as they are for a different and reasonable propose and
          pushing them to market is exactly shaping policies to favor
          private business like yours which is not the function of a RIR
          and this community who develop these policies.<br>
          Things change over time and we have do adapt to new scenarios
          (the policies allowing transfers intra and inter RIR is a
          example), but we must never forget some principles that has
          always been base for correct IP space allocations.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p>Regards<br>
          Fernando<o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">On 16/08/2019 10:43, Mike Burns wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Hi
              Fernando,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Thanks for
              your input. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I think
              you are completely wrong in your interpretation of how
              IPv4 addressing should be managed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">You cling
              to old processes and thoughts associated with the free
              pool era, which is gone.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Without
              the presence of the free pool, the market is the
              “necessary and fair” way to manage resources.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">With both
              the presence of the free pool and the market, there are
              problems that manifested themselves in overt fraud.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">This
              situation caused unprecedented events like the unilateral
              shutting down of the waiting list by the executive board,
              the virtual writing of policy by the Advisory council, the
              changing of waiting list rules mid-game, the rationale of
              justifying the need for a block and then maintaining that
              same need for an indeterminate time before allocation, the
              creation of another class of addresses in ARIN space (not
              easily distinguished), the favoring of small members over
              large members, the FUD injected into project developments,
              the incentives to lease space to maintain waiting-list
              need, etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">We only
              have to look across the pond to see that any pool of
              “free” addresses will be plundered by those willing to
              skirt the rules for new entrants in RIPE or open an empty
              office in Africa in order to access “free” addresses. You
              don’t have to limit your thoughts to addresses, just think
              about any situation where a valuable resource is available
              for “free” and you will find fraud.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">My hope
              was the recent fraud recovery would provide an opportunity
              to provide a block to everybody on the waiting list and
              then be able to shut it down without anybody left on it
              who was waiting for a long time. I think it’s the right
              time to shutter the waiting list. Should any more
              tinkering with the rules become necessary, it will likely
              impact many more people adversely in the future if the
              waiting list is more populated, as I believe it will, with
              members placing their lottery bets. How many new ORG-IDs
              will be granted to members holding more than a /20, for
              the purpose of avoiding that new rule limiting the waiting
              list to those with less than a /20? Whatever rule is
              imposed, a way around it will be sought.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I think it
              should be shut down, and new entrants buy from the market,
              or adhere to the rules for 4.10 and 4.4.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Mike</span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
              1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
                  style="color:windowtext"> ARIN-PPML <a
                    href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"
                    moz-do-not-send="true"><arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net></a>
                  <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fernando Frediani<br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:04 PM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy
                  ARIN-2019-17: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved
                  Pool</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>The waiting list is a necessary and fair way to manage what
            is left for the RIR to distribute to organizations according
            to its mission and based on similar rules that were ever
            used. If there is fraud so let's fix rules for the addresses
            from these pools as it has been discussed recently about the
            minimal wait period for transfers.<br>
            What is out of the RIR's mission is shape its policies to
            favor the transfer market which should never be seen as
            something normal or natural or first option.<br>
            Fernando<o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On 15/08/2019 18:47, Mike Burns wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Owen,<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">It’s hard to predict when the useful
              IPv4 lifetime will end, so it’s hard to say whether runout
              of these reserved pools is unlikely, especially if
              conditions change.<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">If  you feel 4.4 and 4.10 are severely
              overstocked, maybe a proposal to release those
              “sequestered” addresses should be forthcoming, as
              maintaining those pools at those levels is counter to our
              mission?<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Do you have any comments on the problem
              statement, and the idea that the haphazard and
              unpredictable influx of addresses into the waiting list is
              problematic? For example, doesn’t the current constitution
              of the waiting list encourage virtually all ARIN members
              to enter the lottery for a /22? The size is small, the
              justification options pretty generous, the downside
              minimal.<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">In my mind the waiting list is a fraud
              magnet and has outlived its  usefulness, and yes, this is
              an attempt to eliminate it without going down the auction
              route.  The addresses haven’t been destroyed, just taken
              off the market, adding the tiniest bit to the existing
              pools, whose size was approved by the community.<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">I support the policy as written and
              amended.<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> ARIN-PPML <a
                    href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"
                    moz-do-not-send="true"><arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net></a>
                  <b>On Behalf Of </b>Owen DeLong<br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 15, 2019 5:10 PM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> WOOD Alison * DAS <a
                    href="mailto:Alison.WOOD@oregon.gov"
                    moz-do-not-send="true"><Alison.WOOD@oregon.gov></a><br>
                  <b>Cc:</b> arin-ppml <a
                    href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"
                    moz-do-not-send="true"><arin-ppml@arin.net></a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy
                  ARIN-2019-17: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved
                  Pool<o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal">Really, it seems to me that this
              proposal is another attempt at eliminating the waiting
              list for unmet requests.<o:p></o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">The first attempt (ARIN auctions the
                space) met with resistance from ARIN’s legal team (for
                good reason), so now this attempts to sequester the
                space where it will be hard to distribute rather than
                allowing the waiting list to have any potential to
                compete with the transfer market.<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">The proposed targets (4.4 and 4.10
                pools) are well stocked and unlikely to run out in any
                useful IPv4 lifetime.<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">As such, restocking them from
                returned space strikes me as just a way to sequester
                this space where it cannot be used.<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">IMHO, this is counter to ARIN’s
                mission and should not be allowed.<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">I oppose the policy as written and as
                proposed to be amended.<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">Owen<o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <o:p></o:p></p>
                <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">On Aug 15, 2019, at 13:55 ,
                      WOOD Alison * DAS via ARIN-PPML <<a
                        href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>>
                      wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Thank
                          you for the continued input on this draft
                          policy proposal.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">I
                          will be updating the text of the draft policy
                          to include both 4.4 and 4.10 pools.  Point of
                          information, the 4.4 pool currently has
                          approximately 391 /24’s and 4.10 has
                          approximately 15,753 /24’s available and are
                          not estimated to run out in the next five
                          years.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Please
                          keep your feedback coming, it is very helpful
                          for the council.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">-Alison</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
                        1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b>From:</b><span
                              class="apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML
                            [<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]<span
                              class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
                              Behalf Of<span
                                class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Fernando
                            Frediani<br>
                            <b>Sent:</b><span
                              class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday,
                            July 30, 2019 6:44 AM<br>
                            <b>To:</b><span
                              class="apple-converted-space"> </span>arin-ppml
                            <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"
                              moz-do-not-send="true">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
                            <b>Subject:</b><span
                              class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
                            [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17:
                            Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool<o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
                        New Roman",serif">The point is that you
                        treating IP marketing as something 'natural' or
                        a 'default route' which it is not and can never
                        be. Natural is to receive some addresses from
                        the RIR in first place so they are treated as
                        anyone else was in the past and have a chance to
                        exist in the Internet with same conditions as
                        all others. From that if they need extra space
                        then fine to seek for alternative ways.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
                        New Roman",serif">I don't think a new
                        entrants would automatically qualify for 4.10 in
                        all cases therefore any space left should be
                        targeted also to them as well to IPv6 transition
                        and critical infrastructure. Otherwise the
                        community will be creating an artificial barrier
                        to them in order to favor the IP market while
                        the RIR still has IPv4 space available for them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
                        style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
                        New Roman",serif">Fernando</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">On
                            30/07/2019 10:30, Tom Fantacone wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote
                      style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="background:white"><span
                                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
                                would think that the majority of new
                                entrants would need at least some
                                allocation to help with IPv6 transition
                                and would qualify for addresses from the
                                4.10 pool.  Depending on what they
                                receive from that pool and when, they
                                may not qualify for additional waiting
                                list addresses and would have to go to
                                the transfer market for additional IPv4
                                space anyway.  Those that don't qualify
                                under 4.10 can still get smaller IPv4
                                blocks on the transfer market readily,
                                and the cost for blocks in the /24-/22
                                range is not prohibitive.  Certainly an
                                organization seeking a small IPv4 block
                                for multi-homing or other purposes is
                                better off spending a few thousand
                                dollars to purchase a range than waiting
                                a year on the waiting list to put their
                                plans in motion.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                          style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
                            Note that while RIPE does not have a reserve
                            pool specifically for IPv6 transition, the
                            expectation of their final /8 policy was to
                            allow new entrants access to IPv4 to assist
                            in this transition.  In reality, it didn't
                            work out that way and most of the /22
                            allocations to new LIRs from the final /8
                            were to existing organizations who spun up
                            new, related entities in order to increase
                            their IPv4 holdings:<br>
                            <a
href="https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/so-long-last-8-and-thanks-for-all-the-allocations"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                style="color:purple"><br>
https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/so-long-last-8-and-thanks-for-all-the-allocations</span></a><br>
                            <br>
                            I'm also sympathetic to new entrants, but
                            don't see the current waiting list as a
                            great help to them vs. the 4.10 pool or the
                            transfer market, both of which allow you
                            your allocation in a timely fashion.<br>
                            <br>
                            Best Regards,<br>
                            <br>
                            Tom Fantacone</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="background:white"><span
                                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <div id="Zm-_Id_-Sgn1">
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                style="background:white"><span
                                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">----
                                  On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:39:32 -0400<span
                                    class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Fernando
                                    Frediani <<a
                                      href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                        style="color:purple">fhfrediani@gmail.com</span></a>></b><span
                                    class="apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote
                                  ----</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="background:white"><span
                                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote
                            style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
                            1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
5.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"
                                  style="background:white"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
                                    find it interesting the idea of
                                    privileging the pool dedicated to<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    facilitate IPv6 Deployment and I
                                    also agree with the comments below
                                    in<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    the sense that it's not very
                                    beneficial do most ARIN members due
                                    to max<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    size, /22, cannot be holding more
                                    than a /20.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    However one point I couldn't
                                    identify is where the new entrants
                                    stand in<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    this new possible scenario ? Will
                                    they only be able to apply under the<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    4.10 reserved pool ? If so for a
                                    access/broadband ISPs may be easier
                                    to<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    fit, but not necessarily for other
                                    scenarios and types of ISPs.<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    Therefore if I didn't miss anything
                                    these returned addresses should also<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    be able to go to new entrants, not
                                    only to 4.10 reserved pool
                                    conditions.<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Best regards<br>
                                    Fernando Frediani<br>
                                    <br>
                                    On 25/07/2019 17:32, Tom Fantacone
                                    wrote:<br>
                                    > I found the wording of the
                                    Problem Statement on this one a bit<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > confusing. However, after
                                    deciphering the effect of the actual
                                    policy<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > change I support it.<br>
                                    ><br>
                                    > Essentially, all returned IPv4
                                    space will no longer go to the
                                    waiting<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > list but will supplement the
                                    4.10 reserved pool used to enhance
                                    IPv6<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > deployment.  This essentially
                                    kills off the waiting list.<br>
                                    ><br>
                                    > The recent restrictions placed
                                    on the waiting list to reduce fraud<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > have hobbled it to the point
                                    where it's not very beneficial to
                                    most<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > ARIN members.  (Max size, /22,
                                    cannot be holding more than a /20). <span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > It's essentially only useful to
                                    new entrants, but those that go on
                                    it<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > still have to wait many months
                                    to receive their small allocation. 
                                    If<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > they justify need now, but have
                                    to wait that long, how critical is<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > their need if they're willing
                                    to wait that long?  Small blocks are
                                    not<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > terribly expensive and can be
                                    quickly gotten on the transfer
                                    market. <span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > I can understand waiting that
                                    long for a large block needed for a<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > longer term project due to
                                    prohibitive cost, but I don't see a
                                    great<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > benefit to the waiting list as
                                    it stands.<br>
                                    ><br>
                                    > Also, if there's any fraud left
                                    on the waiting list, this would kill
                                    it.<br>
                                    ><br>
                                    > I would hope, however, that if
                                    implemented, those currently on the<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > waiting list would be
                                    grandfathered in.  I do think some
                                    entities with<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    > legitimate need got burned on
                                    the last change made to the waiting
                                    list.<br>
                                    ><br>
                                    > At 04:05 PM 7/23/2019, ARIN
                                    wrote:<br>
                                    >> On 18 July 2019, the ARIN
                                    Advisory Council (AC) accepted<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> "ARIN-prop-276: Returned
                                    Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool"
                                    as a<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> Draft Policy.<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17
                                    is below and can be found at:<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >><span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_17/"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                        style="color:purple">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_17/</span></a><br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> You are encouraged to
                                    discuss all Draft Policies on PPML.
                                    The AC will<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> evaluate the discussion in
                                    order to assess the conformance of
                                    this<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> draft policy with ARIN's
                                    Principles of Internet number
                                    resource<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> policy as stated in the
                                    Policy Development Process (PDP).<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> Specifically, these
                                    principles are:<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> * Enabling Fair and
                                    Impartial Number Resource
                                    Administration<br>
                                    >> * Technically Sound<br>
                                    >> * Supported by the
                                    Community<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> The PDP can be found at:<br>
                                    >><span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                        style="color:purple">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/</span></a><br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> Draft Policies and
                                    Proposals under discussion can be
                                    found at:<br>
                                    >><span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"><span
                                        style="color:purple">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/</span></a><br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> Regards,<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> Sean Hopkins<br>
                                    >> Policy Analyst<br>
                                    >> American Registry for
                                    Internet Numbers (ARIN)<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17:
                                    Returned Addresses to the 4.10
                                    Reserved Pool<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> Problem Statement:<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> An inconsistent and
                                    unpredictable stream of address
                                    space is an<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> unsuitable method of
                                    populating the waiting list
                                    (4.1.8.1) and<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> fulfilling subsequent
                                    requests.<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> Policy statement:<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> Change "4.10. Dedicated
                                    IPv4 Block to Facilitate IPv6
                                    Deployment" to<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> "4.10 Dedicated IPv4 Pool
                                    to Facilitate IPv6 Deployment"<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> Change" When ARIN receives
                                    its last /8 IPv4 allocation from
                                    IANA, a<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> contiguous /10 IPv4 block
                                    will be set aside and dedicated to<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> facilitate IPv6 deployment.
                                    Allocations and assignments from
                                    this<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> block " to "In addition to
                                    the contiguous /10 IPv4 block set
                                    aside<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> and dedicated to facilitate
                                    IPv6 deployment, all returns and<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> revocations of IPv4  blocks
                                    will be added to the pool of space<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> dedicated to the
                                    facilitation of IPv6 deployment.
                                    Allocations and<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> assignments from this pool
                                    "<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> Change "This block will be
                                    subject to a minimum size allocation
                                    of<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> /28 and a maximum size
                                    allocation of /24. ARIN should use
                                    sparse<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> allocation when possible
                                    within that /10 block." to "This
                                    pool will<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> be subject to a minimum
                                    size allocation of /28 and a maximum
                                    sized<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> allocation of /24. ARIN
                                    should use sparse allocation when
                                    possible<span
                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                    >> within the pool."<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> Comments:<br>
                                    >><br>
                                    >> Timetable for
                                    implementation: Immediate<br>
                                    >>
                                    _______________________________________________<br>
                                    >> ARIN-PPML<br>
                                    >> You are receiving this
                                    message because you are subscribed
                                    to<br>
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                                      href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net"
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                                      moz-do-not-send="true"><span
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                                    >> Unsubscribe or manage your
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                                    >> Please contact<span
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                                      class="apple-converted-space"> </span>if
                                    you experience any issues.<br>
                                    ><br>
                                    ><br>
                                    >
                                    _______________________________________________<br>
                                    > ARIN-PPML<br>
                                    > You are receiving this message
                                    because you are subscribed to<br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
                                    ARIN-PPML<br>
                                    You are receiving this message
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                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white">_______________________________________________</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                        <span style="background:white">ARIN-PPML</span><br>
                        <span style="background:white">You are receiving
                          this message because you are subscribed to</span><br>
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                          Policy Mailing List (<a
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                            moz-do-not-send="true">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).</span><br>
                        <span style="background:white">Unsubscribe or
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              <o:p></o:p></p>
            <pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>ARIN-PPML<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<o:p></o:p></pre>
            <pre>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" moz-do-not-send="true">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<o:p></o:p></pre>
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