<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 5:10 PM Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">Really, it seems to me that this proposal is another attempt at eliminating the waiting list for unmet requests.<div><br></div><div>The first attempt (ARIN auctions the space) met with resistance from ARIN’s legal team (for good reason), so now this attempts to sequester the space where it will be hard to distribute rather than allowing the waiting list to have any potential to compete with the transfer market.</div><div><br></div><div>The proposed targets (4.4 and 4.10 pools) are well stocked and unlikely to run out in any useful IPv4 lifetime.</div><div><br></div><div>As such, restocking them from returned space strikes me as just a way to sequester this space where it cannot be used.</div><div><br></div><div>IMHO, this is counter to ARIN’s mission and should not be allowed.</div><div><br></div><div>I oppose the policy as written and as proposed to be amended.</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>For different reasons, but generally close enough, agree. +1</div><div><br></div><div><br> </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div></div><div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Aug 15, 2019, at 13:55 , WOOD Alison * DAS via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901WordSection1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration:none"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Thank you for the continued input on this draft policy proposal.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">I will be updating the text of the draft policy to include both 4.4 and 4.10 pools.  Point of information, the 4.4 pool currently has approximately 391 /24’s and 4.10 has approximately 15,753 /24’s available and are not estimated to run out in the next five years.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">Please keep your feedback coming, it is very helpful for the council.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)">-Alison<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,84,106)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML [<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-con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r-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 5pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">I find it interesting the idea of privileging the pool dedicated to<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>facilitate IPv6 Deployment and I also agree with the comments below in<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>the sense that it's not very beneficial do most ARIN members due to max<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>size, /22, cannot be holding more than a /20.<br><br>However one point I couldn't identify is where the new entrants stand in<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>this new possible scenario ? Will they only be able to apply under the<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>4.10 reserved pool ? If so for a access/broadband ISPs may be easier to<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>fit, but not necessarily for other scenarios and types of ISPs.<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Therefore if I didn't miss anything these returned addresses should also<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>be able to go to new entrants, not only to 4.10 reserved pool conditions.<br><br>Best regards<br>Fernando Frediani<br><br>On 25/07/2019 17:32, Tom Fantacone wrote:<br>> I found the wording of the Problem Statement on this one a bit<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> confusing. However, after deciphering the effect of the actual policy<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> change I support it.<br>><br>> Essentially, all returned IPv4 space will no longer go to the waiting<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> list but will supplement the 4.10 reserved pool used to enhance IPv6<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> deployment.  This essentially kills off the waiting list.<br>><br>> The recent restrictions placed on the waiting list to reduce fraud<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> have hobbled it to the point where it's not very beneficial to most<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> ARIN members.  (Max size, /22, cannot be holding more than a /20). <span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> It's essentially only useful to new entrants, but those that go on it<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> still have to wait many months to receive their small allocation.  If<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> they justify need now, but have to wait that long, how critical is<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> their need if they're willing to wait that long?  Small blocks are not<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> terribly expensive and can be quickly gotten on the transfer market. <span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> I can understand waiting that long for a large block needed for a<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> longer term project due to prohibitive cost, but I don't see a great<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> benefit to the waiting list as it stands.<br>><br>> Also, if there's any fraud left on the waiting list, this would kill it.<br>><br>> I would hope, however, that if implemented, those currently on the<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> waiting list would be grandfathered in.  I do think some entities with<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> legitimate need got burned on the last change made to the waiting list.<br>><br>> At 04:05 PM 7/23/2019, ARIN wrote:<br>>> On 18 July 2019, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> "ARIN-prop-276: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool" as a<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> Draft Policy.<br>>><br>>> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17 is below and can be found at:<br>>><br>>><span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_17/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_17/</a><br>>><br>>> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of this<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> policy as stated in the Policy Development Process (PDP).<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> Specifically, these principles are:<br>>><br>>> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration<br>>> * Technically Sound<br>>> * Supported by the Community<br>>><br>>> The PDP can be found at:<br>>><span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/</a><br>>><br>>> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:<br>>><span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/</a><br>>><br>>> Regards,<br>>><br>>> Sean Hopkins<br>>> Policy Analyst<br>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)<br>>><br>>> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool<br>>><br>>> Problem Statement:<br>>><br>>> An inconsistent and unpredictable stream of address space is an<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> unsuitable method of populating the waiting list (4.1.8.1) and<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> fulfilling subsequent requests.<br>>><br>>> Policy statement:<br>>><br>>> Change "4.10. Dedicated IPv4 Block to Facilitate IPv6 Deployment" to<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> "4.10 Dedicated IPv4 Pool to Facilitate IPv6 Deployment"<br>>><br>>> Change" When ARIN receives its last /8 IPv4 allocation from IANA, a<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> contiguous /10 IPv4 block will be set aside and dedicated to<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> facilitate IPv6 deployment. Allocations and assignments from this<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> block " to "In addition to the contiguous /10 IPv4 block set aside<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> and dedicated to facilitate IPv6 deployment, all returns and<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> revocations of IPv4  blocks will be added to the pool of space<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> dedicated to the facilitation of IPv6 deployment. Allocations and<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> assignments from this pool "<br>>><br>>> Change "This block will be subject to a minimum size allocation of<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> /28 and a maximum size allocation of /24. ARIN should use sparse<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> allocation when possible within that /10 block." to "This pool will<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> be subject to a minimum size allocation of /28 and a maximum sized<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> allocation of /24. ARIN should use sparse allocation when possible<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>>> within the pool."<br>>><br>>> Comments:<br>>><br>>> Timetable for implementation: Immediate<br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> ARIN-PPML<br>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>>><span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>>> Please contact<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a><span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.<br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> ARIN-PPML<br>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>><span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>> Please contact<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a><span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.<br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact<span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a><span class="gmail-m_-4069736525212753901Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></blockquote></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></div></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></blockquote></div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">ARIN-PPML</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration:none"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:</span>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