<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Really, it seems to me that this proposal is another attempt at eliminating the waiting list for unmet requests.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The first attempt (ARIN auctions the space) met with resistance from ARIN’s legal team (for good reason), so now this attempts to sequester the space where it will be hard to distribute rather than allowing the waiting list to have any potential to compete with the transfer market.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The proposed targets (4.4 and 4.10 pools) are well stocked and unlikely to run out in any useful IPv4 lifetime.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As such, restocking them from returned space strikes me as just a way to sequester this space where it cannot be used.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">IMHO, this is counter to ARIN’s mission and should not be allowed.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I oppose the policy as written and as proposed to be amended.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 15, 2019, at 13:55 , WOOD Alison * DAS via ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 84, 106);" class="">Thank you for the continued input on this draft policy proposal.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 84, 106);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 84, 106);" class="">I will be updating the text of the draft policy to include both 4.4 and 4.10 pools. Point of information, the 4.4 pool currently has approximately 391 /24’s and 4.10 has approximately 15,753 /24’s available and are not estimated to run out in the next five years.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 84, 106);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 84, 106);" class="">Please keep your feedback coming, it is very helpful for the council.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 84, 106);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 84, 106);" class="">-Alison<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(68, 84, 106);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML [<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" class="">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Fernando Frediani<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, July 30, 2019 6:44 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>arin-ppml <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">The point is that you treating IP marketing as something 'natural' or a 'default route' which it is not and can never be. Natural is to receive some addresses from the RIR in first place so they are treated as anyone else was in the past and have a chance to exist in the Internet with same conditions as all others. From that if they need extra space then fine to seek for alternative ways.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">I don't think a new entrants would automatically qualify for 4.10 in all cases therefore any space left should be targeted also to them as well to IPv6 transition and critical infrastructure. Otherwise the community will be creating an artificial barrier to them in order to favor the IP market while the RIR still has IPv4 space available for them.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">Fernando<o:p class=""></o:p></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class="">On 30/07/2019 10:30, Tom Fantacone wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">I would think that the majority of new entrants would need at least some allocation to help with IPv6 transition and would qualify for addresses from the 4.10 pool. Depending on what they receive from that pool and when, they may not qualify for additional waiting list addresses and would have to go to the transfer market for additional IPv4 space anyway. Those that don't qualify under 4.10 can still get smaller IPv4 blocks on the transfer market readily, and the cost for blocks in the /24-/22 range is not prohibitive. Certainly an organization seeking a small IPv4 block for multi-homing or other purposes is better off spending a few thousand dollars to purchase a range than waiting a year on the waiting list to put their plans in motion.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">Note that while RIPE does not have a reserve pool specifically for IPv6 transition, the expectation of their final /8 policy was to allow new entrants access to IPv4 to assist in this transition. In reality, it didn't work out that way and most of the /22 allocations to new LIRs from the final /8 were to existing organizations who spun up new, related entities in order to increase their IPv4 holdings:<br class=""><a href="https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/so-long-last-8-and-thanks-for-all-the-allocations" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><br class="">https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/so-long-last-8-and-thanks-for-all-the-allocations</a><br class=""><br class="">I'm also sympathetic to new entrants, but don't see the current waiting list as a great help to them vs. the 4.10 pool or the transfer market, both of which allow you your allocation in a timely fashion.<br class=""><br class="">Best Regards,<br class=""><br class="">Tom Fantacone<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div id="Zm-_Id_-Sgn1" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">---- On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:39:32 -0400<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote ----<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0in 0in 0in 5pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-right: 0in;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">I find it interesting the idea of privileging the pool dedicated to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">facilitate IPv6 Deployment and I also agree with the comments below in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">the sense that it's not very beneficial do most ARIN members due to max<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">size, /22, cannot be holding more than a /20.<br class=""><br class="">However one point I couldn't identify is where the new entrants stand in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">this new possible scenario ? Will they only be able to apply under the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">4.10 reserved pool ? If so for a access/broadband ISPs may be easier to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">fit, but not necessarily for other scenarios and types of ISPs.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Therefore if I didn't miss anything these returned addresses should also<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">be able to go to new entrants, not only to 4.10 reserved pool conditions.<br class=""><br class="">Best regards<br class="">Fernando Frediani<br class=""><br class="">On 25/07/2019 17:32, Tom Fantacone wrote:<br class="">> I found the wording of the Problem Statement on this one a bit<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> confusing. However, after deciphering the effect of the actual policy<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> change I support it.<br class="">><br class="">> Essentially, all returned IPv4 space will no longer go to the waiting<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> list but will supplement the 4.10 reserved pool used to enhance IPv6<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> deployment. This essentially kills off the waiting list.<br class="">><br class="">> The recent restrictions placed on the waiting list to reduce fraud<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> have hobbled it to the point where it's not very beneficial to most<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> ARIN members. (Max size, /22, cannot be holding more than a /20). <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> It's essentially only useful to new entrants, but those that go on it<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> still have to wait many months to receive their small allocation. If<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> they justify need now, but have to wait that long, how critical is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> their need if they're willing to wait that long? Small blocks are not<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> terribly expensive and can be quickly gotten on the transfer market. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> I can understand waiting that long for a large block needed for a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> longer term project due to prohibitive cost, but I don't see a great<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> benefit to the waiting list as it stands.<br class="">><br class="">> Also, if there's any fraud left on the waiting list, this would kill it.<br class="">><br class="">> I would hope, however, that if implemented, those currently on the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> waiting list would be grandfathered in. I do think some entities with<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">> legitimate need got burned on the last change made to the waiting list.<br class="">><br class="">> At 04:05 PM 7/23/2019, ARIN wrote:<br class="">>> On 18 July 2019, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> "ARIN-prop-276: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool" as a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> Draft Policy.<br class="">>><br class="">>> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17 is below and can be found at:<br class="">>><br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_17/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_17/</a><br class="">>><br class="">>> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of this<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> policy as stated in the Policy Development Process (PDP).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> Specifically, these principles are:<br class="">>><br class="">>> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration<br class="">>> * Technically Sound<br class="">>> * Supported by the Community<br class="">>><br class="">>> The PDP can be found at:<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/</a><br class="">>><br class="">>> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/</a><br class="">>><br class="">>> Regards,<br class="">>><br class="">>> Sean Hopkins<br class="">>> Policy Analyst<br class="">>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)<br class="">>><br class="">>> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool<br class="">>><br class="">>> Problem Statement:<br class="">>><br class="">>> An inconsistent and unpredictable stream of address space is an<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> unsuitable method of populating the waiting list (4.1.8.1) and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> fulfilling subsequent requests.<br class="">>><br class="">>> Policy statement:<br class="">>><br class="">>> Change "4.10. Dedicated IPv4 Block to Facilitate IPv6 Deployment" to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> "4.10 Dedicated IPv4 Pool to Facilitate IPv6 Deployment"<br class="">>><br class="">>> Change" When ARIN receives its last /8 IPv4 allocation from IANA, a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> contiguous /10 IPv4 block will be set aside and dedicated to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> facilitate IPv6 deployment. Allocations and assignments from this<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> block " to "In addition to the contiguous /10 IPv4 block set aside<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> and dedicated to facilitate IPv6 deployment, all returns and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> revocations of IPv4 blocks will be added to the pool of space<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> dedicated to the facilitation of IPv6 deployment. Allocations and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> assignments from this pool "<br class="">>><br class="">>> Change "This block will be subject to a minimum size allocation of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> /28 and a maximum size allocation of /24. ARIN should use sparse<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> allocation when possible within that /10 block." to "This pool will<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> be subject to a minimum size allocation of /28 and a maximum sized<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> allocation of /24. ARIN should use sparse allocation when possible<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">>> within the pool."<br class="">>><br class="">>> Comments:<br class="">>><br class="">>> Timetable for implementation: Immediate<br class="">>> _______________________________________________<br class="">>> ARIN-PPML<br class="">>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">>> Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">info@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.<br class="">><br class="">><br class="">> _______________________________________________<br class="">> ARIN-PPML<br class="">> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">> Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">info@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.<br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">ARIN-PPML<br class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class=""><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">info@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></blockquote></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); 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