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<p>The waiting list is a necessary and fair way to manage what is
left for the RIR to distribute to organizations according to its
mission and based on similar rules that were ever used. If there
is fraud so let's fix rules for the addresses from these pools as
it has been discussed recently about the minimal wait period for
transfers.<br>
What is out of the RIR's mission is shape its policies to favor
the transfer market which should never be seen as something normal
or natural or first option.<br>
Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/08/2019 18:47, Mike Burns wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Owen,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It’s hard to predict when the useful IPv4
lifetime will end, so it’s hard to say whether runout of these
reserved pools is unlikely, especially if conditions change.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you feel 4.4 and 4.10 are severely
overstocked, maybe a proposal to release those “sequestered”
addresses should be forthcoming, as maintaining those pools at
those levels is counter to our mission?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Do you have any comments on the problem
statement, and the idea that the haphazard and unpredictable
influx of addresses into the waiting list is problematic? For
example, doesn’t the current constitution of the waiting list
encourage virtually all ARIN members to enter the lottery for
a /22? The size is small, the justification options pretty
generous, the downside minimal.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In my mind the waiting list is a fraud
magnet and has outlived its usefulness, and yes, this is an
attempt to eliminate it without going down the auction route.
The addresses haven’t been destroyed, just taken off the
market, adding the tiniest bit to the existing pools, whose
size was approved by the community.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I support the policy as written and
amended.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> ARIN-PPML
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"><arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Owen
DeLong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 15, 2019 5:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WOOD Alison * DAS
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Alison.WOOD@oregon.gov"><Alison.WOOD@oregon.gov></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> arin-ppml <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"><arin-ppml@arin.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17:
Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Really, it seems to me that this proposal
is another attempt at eliminating the waiting list for unmet
requests.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The first attempt (ARIN auctions the
space) met with resistance from ARIN’s legal team (for good
reason), so now this attempts to sequester the space where
it will be hard to distribute rather than allowing the
waiting list to have any potential to compete with the
transfer market.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The proposed targets (4.4 and 4.10 pools)
are well stocked and unlikely to run out in any useful IPv4
lifetime.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As such, restocking them from returned
space strikes me as just a way to sequester this space where
it cannot be used.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">IMHO, this is counter to ARIN’s mission
and should not be allowed.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I oppose the policy as written and as
proposed to be amended.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Owen<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Aug 15, 2019, at 13:55 , WOOD
Alison * DAS via ARIN-PPML <<a
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Thank
you for the continued input on this draft policy
proposal.</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">I
will be updating the text of the draft policy to
include both 4.4 and 4.10 pools. Point of
information, the 4.4 pool currently has
approximately 391 /24’s and 4.10 has approximately
15,753 /24’s available and are not estimated to
run out in the next five years.</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Please
keep your feedback coming, it is very helpful for
the council.</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A">-Alison</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b>From:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML
[<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Fernando
Frediani<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday,
July 30, 2019 6:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>arin-ppml
<<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17: Returned
Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool<span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">The point is that you treating IP
marketing as something 'natural' or a 'default
route' which it is not and can never be. Natural is
to receive some addresses from the RIR in first
place so they are treated as anyone else was in the
past and have a chance to exist in the Internet with
same conditions as all others. From that if they
need extra space then fine to seek for alternative
ways.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">I don't think a new entrants
would automatically qualify for 4.10 in all cases
therefore any space left should be targeted also to
them as well to IPv6 transition and critical
infrastructure. Otherwise the community will be
creating an artificial barrier to them in order to
favor the IP market while the RIR still has IPv4
space available for them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">Fernando<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif">On 30/07/2019 10:30, Tom
Fantacone wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
would think that the majority of new
entrants would need at least some allocation
to help with IPv6 transition and would
qualify for addresses from the 4.10 pool.
Depending on what they receive from that
pool and when, they may not qualify for
additional waiting list addresses and would
have to go to the transfer market for
additional IPv4 space anyway. Those that
don't qualify under 4.10 can still get
smaller IPv4 blocks on the transfer market
readily, and the cost for blocks in the
/24-/22 range is not prohibitive. Certainly
an organization seeking a small IPv4 block
for multi-homing or other purposes is better
off spending a few thousand dollars to
purchase a range than waiting a year on the
waiting list to put their plans in motion.</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
Note that while RIPE does not have a reserve
pool specifically for IPv6 transition, the
expectation of their final /8 policy was to
allow new entrants access to IPv4 to assist in
this transition. In reality, it didn't work out
that way and most of the /22 allocations to new
LIRs from the final /8 were to existing
organizations who spun up new, related entities
in order to increase their IPv4 holdings:<br>
<a
href="https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/so-long-last-8-and-thanks-for-all-the-allocations"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple"><br>
https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/so-long-last-8-and-thanks-for-all-the-allocations</span></a><br>
<br>
I'm also sympathetic to new entrants, but don't
see the current waiting list as a great help to
them vs. the 4.10 pool or the transfer market,
both of which allow you your allocation in a
timely fashion.<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
<br>
Tom Fantacone</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id="Zm-_Id_-Sgn1">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">----
On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:39:32 -0400<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Fernando
Frediani <<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">fhfrediani@gmail.com</span></a>></b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote
----</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
5.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
find it interesting the idea of
privileging the pool dedicated to<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
facilitate IPv6 Deployment and I also
agree with the comments below in<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
the sense that it's not very beneficial
do most ARIN members due to max<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
size, /22, cannot be holding more than a
/20.<br>
<br>
However one point I couldn't identify is
where the new entrants stand in<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
this new possible scenario ? Will they
only be able to apply under the<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
4.10 reserved pool ? If so for a
access/broadband ISPs may be easier to<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
fit, but not necessarily for other
scenarios and types of ISPs.<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
Therefore if I didn't miss anything
these returned addresses should also<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
be able to go to new entrants, not only
to 4.10 reserved pool conditions.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
Fernando Frediani<br>
<br>
On 25/07/2019 17:32, Tom Fantacone
wrote:<br>
> I found the wording of the Problem
Statement on this one a bit<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> confusing. However, after
deciphering the effect of the actual
policy<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> change I support it.<br>
><br>
> Essentially, all returned IPv4
space will no longer go to the waiting<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> list but will supplement the 4.10
reserved pool used to enhance IPv6<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> deployment. This essentially kills
off the waiting list.<br>
><br>
> The recent restrictions placed on
the waiting list to reduce fraud<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> have hobbled it to the point where
it's not very beneficial to most<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> ARIN members. (Max size, /22,
cannot be holding more than a /20). <span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> It's essentially only useful to new
entrants, but those that go on it<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> still have to wait many months to
receive their small allocation. If<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> they justify need now, but have to
wait that long, how critical is<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> their need if they're willing to
wait that long? Small blocks are not<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> terribly expensive and can be
quickly gotten on the transfer market. <span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> I can understand waiting that long
for a large block needed for a<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> longer term project due to
prohibitive cost, but I don't see a
great<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> benefit to the waiting list as it
stands.<br>
><br>
> Also, if there's any fraud left on
the waiting list, this would kill it.<br>
><br>
> I would hope, however, that if
implemented, those currently on the<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> waiting list would be grandfathered
in. I do think some entities with<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> legitimate need got burned on the
last change made to the waiting list.<br>
><br>
> At 04:05 PM 7/23/2019, ARIN wrote:<br>
>> On 18 July 2019, the ARIN
Advisory Council (AC) accepted<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> "ARIN-prop-276: Returned
Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool" as
a<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> Draft Policy.<br>
>><br>
>> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17 is
below and can be found at:<br>
>><br>
>><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_17/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_17/</span></a><br>
>><br>
>> You are encouraged to discuss
all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> evaluate the discussion in
order to assess the conformance of this<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> draft policy with ARIN's
Principles of Internet number resource<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> policy as stated in the Policy
Development Process (PDP).<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> Specifically, these principles
are:<br>
>><br>
>> * Enabling Fair and Impartial
Number Resource Administration<br>
>> * Technically Sound<br>
>> * Supported by the Community<br>
>><br>
>> The PDP can be found at:<br>
>><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/</span></a><br>
>><br>
>> Draft Policies and Proposals
under discussion can be found at:<br>
>><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/</span></a><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Sean Hopkins<br>
>> Policy Analyst<br>
>> American Registry for Internet
Numbers (ARIN)<br>
>><br>
>> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17:
Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved
Pool<br>
>><br>
>> Problem Statement:<br>
>><br>
>> An inconsistent and
unpredictable stream of address space is
an<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> unsuitable method of populating
the waiting list (4.1.8.1) and<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> fulfilling subsequent requests.<br>
>><br>
>> Policy statement:<br>
>><br>
>> Change "4.10. Dedicated IPv4
Block to Facilitate IPv6 Deployment" to<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> "4.10 Dedicated IPv4 Pool to
Facilitate IPv6 Deployment"<br>
>><br>
>> Change" When ARIN receives its
last /8 IPv4 allocation from IANA, a<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> contiguous /10 IPv4 block will
be set aside and dedicated to<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> facilitate IPv6 deployment.
Allocations and assignments from this<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> block " to "In addition to the
contiguous /10 IPv4 block set aside<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> and dedicated to facilitate
IPv6 deployment, all returns and<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> revocations of IPv4 blocks
will be added to the pool of space<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> dedicated to the facilitation
of IPv6 deployment. Allocations and<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> assignments from this pool "<br>
>><br>
>> Change "This block will be
subject to a minimum size allocation of<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> /28 and a maximum size
allocation of /24. ARIN should use
sparse<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> allocation when possible within
that /10 block." to "This pool will<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> be subject to a minimum size
allocation of /28 and a maximum sized<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> allocation of /24. ARIN should
use sparse allocation when possible<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
>> within the pool."<br>
>><br>
>> Comments:<br>
>><br>
>> Timetable for implementation:
Immediate<br>
>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>> ARIN-PPML<br>
>> You are receiving this message
because you are subscribed to<br>
>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing
List (<a
href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</span></a>).<br>
>> Unsubscribe or manage your
mailing list subscription at:<br>
>><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank"
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style="color:purple">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</span></a><br>
>> Please contact<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:info@arin.net"
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style="color:purple">info@arin.net</span></a><span
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><br>
><br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
> ARIN-PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message
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class="apple-converted-space"> </span>if
you experience any issues.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
ARIN-PPML<br>
You are receiving this message because
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white">_______________________________________________</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
<span style="background:white">ARIN-PPML</span><br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
ARIN-PPML
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a>
Please contact <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.
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