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<P>Robert,</P>
<P>If the IP belongs to an ISP or a Network provider then every ISP or Network
carrier always lease their IP's to their clients, that does not make it
illegal, that is their business.</P>
<P>Thanks</P>
<P>Hayee</P>
<P>
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<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">Hello
Mike,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Why are you using John's "waiting list IPv4 blocks transferred"
numbers as a baseline for the /19 numbers? This is completely arbitrary
and doesn't give any scale as to the problem with fraud. See my earlier
reply to John's email in the other thread:</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>"<SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">Thanks
for sharing. I'd like to note that it can be dangerous to use the blocks
transferred via 8.2/8.3/9.4 as a metric for abuse. A fraudster that gets
past ARIN's scrutiny and obtains IPs with fraudulent information is
probably smart enough to lease their IPs as opposed to selling the space
outright. There is a huge market for leased space, and those deals
happen behind closed doors with no oversight from ARIN. IP addresses go
for $0.2-0.5/mo depending on term/IP reputation/size which could lead to
$XX,XXX in illicit revenue with no risk of ARIN's scrutiny which would
normally occur during the transfer process."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">Robert
Clarke</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>On May 29, 2019, at 8:13 AM, Mike Burns <<A
href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com">mike@iptrading.com</A>>
wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); page: WordSection1; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Hi Fernando,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Thanks for the
discussion.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Many feel as you do, that unused addresses
should be returned to ARIN for subsequent distribution to those in
need.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Unfortunately, that policy was not
successful in bringing unused addresses into actual use by those in
need.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">The community decided to harness the profit
motive to incentive this process, and by all accounts it is
working.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Unfortunately the profit motive also
incentivizes fraudulent plundering of the waiting list
pool.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">So I am happy to discuss the correct
balancing of things to prevent fraud but allow the market to continue
to drive us towards the desirable ends of accurate registration and
efficient use.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Since the /19 is the threshold number of
sorts for flipping, I could accept a /20 as the maximum
size.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">I think a 2 year wait is reasonable, but I
don’t see the additional benefit as worth the distinction of ARIN
space into more classes.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">And making it more complicated with multiple
waiting periods is even less desirable, IMO.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Regards,<BR>Mike<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>ARIN-PPML <<A
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</A>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>Fernando
Frediani<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Wednesday, May 29, 2019 10:50
AM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</A><BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [arin-ppml] Waiting List
IPv4 blocks transferred after
issuance<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p> </o:p></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">On
29/05/2019 11:31, Mike Burns wrote:<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Orgs will wait out any period, sitting
with unused addresses until they reach the resale date. Not
efficient use.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>If it's not a legacy resource and if ARIN gets to know about it,
it may just recover this addresses even if the resource holder is
paying it correctly. That's how it should work.<o:p></o:p></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><BR><BR></SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">People will lease unused addresses to
others and Whois accuracy will suffer if they can’t resell them. Not
accurate registration.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>If people lease they prove they have no use for the addresses and
again ARIN should recover them at any time. If whois is inaccurate,
well it is their fault and not policies fault. They must bind to the
current rules not the other way round.<o:p></o:p></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><BR><BR></SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">I think we should give everybody currently
on the list up to a /19 and then restrict new entries to a
/22.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Fair
to discuss this scenario, although I still think /19 is too much.
Agree on /22 for new entries.<BR><BR><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">I think a 5 year resale wait is too long,
based on the paltry resales of prior waiting-list subnets smaller
than /19.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">It
may be long, but 2 years seems a little short and 'acceptable' for a
fraudster. Perhaps something in between.<BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">I support a /22 restriction for new
entrants, a /19 max for current list members, and maintenance of the
12 month wait for simplicity’s
sake.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">What
about discuss /22 for new entrants, /20 for current list members and
36, 42 or 48 months for transfers ? Seems more reasonable in my view
and cover most aspects of this discussion.<BR><BR><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><BR><BR></SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Regards,<BR>Mike</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>ARIN-PPML<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple"
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"><arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net></A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>Fernando
Frediani<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Wednesday, May 29, 2019
8:51 AM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple"
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</A><BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [arin-ppml] Waiting
List IPv4 blocks transferred after
issuance</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV>+1<o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">On
28/05/2019 23:52, Owen DeLong wrote:<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt"
type="cite"><DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Mike,<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Yes
and no. I believe that the lack of legacy holders for any blocks
issued under 4.1.8 reduces the need for the
market.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Defunct
organizations can easily be reclaimed in this space because they
stop paying their ARIN bill.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Eliminating
the resale value of these addresses won’t really encourage
squatting on them and limiting the size of organization and size
of block that can benefit from 4.1.8 further helps to reduce the
potential for hoarding.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I
realize that as a broker, any address that can’t be monetized is a
lost opportunity for your organization, but I think there’s plenty
of addresses out there that haven’t been processed through 4.1.8,
so I don’t think limiting the resale potential of such blocks to
reduce fraud is a bad idea.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Owen<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt"
type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">On
May 28, 2019, at 12:46 , Mike Burns <<A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple"
href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com">mike@iptrading.com</A>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The
percentages of blocks transferred takes a significant leap at
the /19 size.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Below
that, the percentages are all below 7%.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">At
/19 and above, the percentages are all above
21%.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Seems
like a natural demarcation for maximum block size, but prices do
continue to rise.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">While
we want to fight fraud, we should still remember the underlying
reasons for the Ipv4 transfer market apply to these addresses as
well.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">That
is, the market provides incentives for efficient use and
accurate registration.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Regards,<BR>Mike<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>ARIN-PPML <<A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple"
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(149,79,114)">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</SPAN></A>><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>John
Curran<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Tuesday, May 28, 2019
1:53 PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>ARIN-PPML List <<A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple"
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(149,79,114)">arin-ppml@arin.net</SPAN></A>><BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[arin-ppml] Waiting
List IPv4 blocks transferred after
issuance<BR><B>Importance:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>High<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Folks
- <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">It
occurred to me that it might be useful to have a quick summary
of waiting list blocks issued and subsequently
transferred. <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Attached
is the distribution (count per prefix size) of all blocks that
have been issued via ARIN's waiting list policy and subsequently
transferred via NRPM 8.2/8.3/8.4
policy.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">FYI,<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">/John<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">John
Curran<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">President
and CEO<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">American
Registry for Internet Numbers<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><image001.png><o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
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contact <A href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</A> if you
experience any issues.</SPAN><BR
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Mike,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Why are you using John's "waiting list IPv4 blocks transferred" numbers as
a baseline for the /19 numbers? This is completely arbitrary and doesn't give
any scale as to the problem with fraud. See my earlier reply to John's email in
the other thread:</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>"<SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">Thanks for
sharing. I'd like to note that it can be dangerous to use the blocks transferred
via 8.2/8.3/9.4 as a metric for abuse. A fraudster that gets past ARIN's
scrutiny and obtains IPs with fraudulent information is probably smart enough to
lease their IPs as opposed to selling the space outright. There is a huge market
for leased space, and those deals happen behind closed doors with no oversight
from ARIN. IP addresses go for $0.2-0.5/mo depending on term/IP reputation/size
which could lead to $XX,XXX in illicit revenue with no risk of ARIN's scrutiny
which would normally occur during the transfer process."</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">Robert
Clarke</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>On May 29, 2019, at 8:13 AM, Mike Burns <<A
href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com">mike@iptrading.com</A>> wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); page: WordSection1; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Hi Fernando,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Thanks for the discussion.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Many feel as you do, that unused addresses should be
returned to ARIN for subsequent distribution to those in
need.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Unfortunately, that policy was not successful in
bringing unused addresses into actual use by those in
need.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">The community decided to harness the profit motive
to incentive this process, and by all accounts it is
working.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Unfortunately the profit motive also incentivizes
fraudulent plundering of the waiting list pool.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">So I am happy to discuss the correct balancing of
things to prevent fraud but allow the market to continue to drive us towards
the desirable ends of accurate registration and efficient
use.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Since the /19 is the threshold number of sorts for
flipping, I could accept a /20 as the maximum size.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">I think a 2 year wait is reasonable, but I don’t see
the additional benefit as worth the distinction of ARIN space into more
classes.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">And making it more complicated with multiple waiting
periods is even less desirable, IMO.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Regards,<BR>Mike<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>ARIN-PPML <<A
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</A>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>Fernando
Frediani<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Wednesday, May 29, 2019 10:50
AM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</A><BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4
blocks transferred after issuance<o:p></o:p></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p> </o:p></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">On
29/05/2019 11:31, Mike Burns wrote:<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Orgs will wait out any period, sitting with unused
addresses until they reach the resale date. Not efficient
use.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>If it's not a legacy resource and if ARIN gets to know about it, it may
just recover this addresses even if the resource holder is paying it
correctly. That's how it should work.<o:p></o:p></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><BR><BR></SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">People will lease unused addresses to others and
Whois accuracy will suffer if they can’t resell them. Not accurate
registration.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>If people lease they prove they have no use for the addresses and again
ARIN should recover them at any time. If whois is inaccurate, well it is their
fault and not policies fault. They must bind to the current rules not the
other way round.<o:p></o:p></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><BR><BR></SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">I think we should give everybody currently on the
list up to a /19 and then restrict new entries to a
/22.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Fair
to discuss this scenario, although I still think /19 is too much. Agree on /22
for new entries.<BR><BR><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">I think a 5 year resale wait is too long, based on
the paltry resales of prior waiting-list subnets smaller than
/19.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">It
may be long, but 2 years seems a little short and 'acceptable' for a
fraudster. Perhaps something in between.<BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">I support a /22 restriction for new entrants, a
/19 max for current list members, and maintenance of the 12 month wait for
simplicity’s sake.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">What
about discuss /22 for new entrants, /20 for current list members and 36, 42 or
48 months for transfers ? Seems more reasonable in my view and cover most
aspects of this discussion.<BR><BR><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><BR><BR></SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">Regards,<BR>Mike</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="COLOR: windowtext"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>ARIN-PPML<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple"
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"><arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net></A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>Fernando
Frediani<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Wednesday, May 29, 2019 8:51
AM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple"
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</A><BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4
blocks transferred after issuance</SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV>+1<o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">On
28/05/2019 23:52, Owen DeLong wrote:<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Mike,<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Yes
and no. I believe that the lack of legacy holders for any blocks issued
under 4.1.8 reduces the need for the market.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Defunct
organizations can easily be reclaimed in this space because they stop
paying their ARIN bill.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Eliminating
the resale value of these addresses won’t really encourage squatting on
them and limiting the size of organization and size of block that can
benefit from 4.1.8 further helps to reduce the potential for
hoarding.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I
realize that as a broker, any address that can’t be monetized is a lost
opportunity for your organization, but I think there’s plenty of addresses
out there that haven’t been processed through 4.1.8, so I don’t think
limiting the resale potential of such blocks to reduce fraud is a bad
idea.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Owen<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">On
May 28, 2019, at 12:46 , Mike Burns <<A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple"
href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com">mike@iptrading.com</A>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The
percentages of blocks transferred takes a significant leap at the /19
size.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Below
that, the percentages are all below 7%.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">At
/19 and above, the percentages are all above 21%.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Seems
like a natural demarcation for maximum block size, but prices do
continue to rise.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">While
we want to fight fraud, we should still remember the underlying reasons
for the Ipv4 transfer market apply to these addresses as
well.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">That
is, the market provides incentives for efficient use and accurate
registration.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Regards,<BR>Mike<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>ARIN-PPML <<A
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple"
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(149,79,114)">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</SPAN></A>><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>John
Curran<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Tuesday, May 28, 2019 1:53
PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>ARIN-PPML
List <<A style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple"
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(149,79,114)">arin-ppml@arin.net</SPAN></A>><BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4
blocks transferred after issuance<BR><B>Importance:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>High<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Folks
- <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">It
occurred to me that it might be useful to have a quick summary of
waiting list blocks issued and subsequently
transferred. <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Attached
is the distribution (count per prefix size) of all blocks that have been
issued via ARIN's waiting list policy and subsequently transferred via
NRPM 8.2/8.3/8.4 policy.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">FYI,<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">/John<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">John
Curran<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">President
and CEO<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">American
Registry for Internet Numbers<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><image001.png><o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica, sans-serif">_______________________________________________<BR>ARIN-PPML<BR>You
are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<BR>the ARIN
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<DIV
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<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></DIV><PRE style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt'>ARIN-PPML<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt'>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt'>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<A style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</A>).<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt'>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt'><A style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</A><o:p></o:p></PRE><PRE style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt'>Please contact <A style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</A> if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><SPAN
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