<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:x-small">I support either of these restrictions. A /21, /20, /19 for current waitlist....</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:x-small"><br></div><div style="min-height:100%"><div class="gmail-nH" style="width:1680px"><div class="gmail-nH" style=""><div class="gmail-nH gmail-bkL"><div class="gmail-no" style="display:flex;width:1680px"><div class="gmail-nH gmail-bkK gmail-nn" style="min-height:1px;overflow:hidden;width:1437px"><div class="gmail-nH"><div class="gmail-nH"><div class="gmail-nH gmail-ar4 gmail-z"><div class="gmail-aeI"><div class="gmail-AO" style=""><div id="gmail-:3" class="gmail-Tm gmail-aeJ" style="padding-right:0px;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;overflow-y:scroll;height:740px"><div id="gmail-:1" class="gmail-aeF" style="padding:0px;vertical-align:bottom;min-height:550px"><div class="gmail-nH"><div class="gmail-nH"><div class="gmail-nH gmail-g"><table class="gmail-Bs gmail-nH gmail-iY gmail-bAt" cellpadding="0" style="border-spacing:0px;padding:0px;border-collapse:collapse;width:1352px;display:block"><tbody><tr><td class="gmail-Bu gmail-bAn" style="vertical-align:top;padding:0px;display:block;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><div class="gmail-nH gmail-if" style="margin:0px 16px 0px 0px;padding:0px"><div class="gmail-nH gmail-aHU" style=""><div class="gmail-nH gmail-hx" style="background-color:transparent;min-width:502px;padding:0px"><div class="gmail-nH gmail-bh"><div class="gmail-h7 gmail-bg gmail-ie gmail-nH gmail-oy8Mbf" tabindex="-1" style="clear:both;padding-bottom:0px;max-width:100000px;outline:none"><div class="gmail-Bk" style="margin-bottom:0px;border-width:0px;border-top-style:solid;border-right-style:initial;border-bottom-style:initial;border-left-style:initial;border-top-color:rgb(239,239,239);border-right-color:initial;border-left-color:initial;border-bottom-color:initial;border-radius:0px;width:1336px"><div class="gmail-G3 gmail-G2 gmail-afm" style="padding-top:0px;background-color:transparent;border-width:1px 0px 0px;border-right-style:initial;border-bottom-style:initial;border-left-style:initial;border-right-color:initial;border-bottom-color:rgba(100,121,143,0.12);border-left-color:initial;border-top-style:solid;border-top-color:rgba(100,121,143,0.12);border-radius:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;margin-right:0px"><div><div id="gmail-:drj"><div class="gmail-adn gmail-ads" style="border-left:none;padding:0px;display:flex"><div class="gmail-gs" style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 20px;width:1272px"><div class="gmail-"><div id="gmail-:drg" class="gmail-ii gmail-gt gmail-adO" style="font-size:12.8px;direction:ltr;margin:8px 0px 0px;padding:0px"><div id="gmail-:drh" class="gmail-a3s gmail-aXjCH" style="overflow:hidden;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:small;line-height:1.5;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span class="gmail-im" style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I support a /22 restriction for new entrants, a /19 max for current list members, and maintenance of the 12 month wait for simplicity’s sake.</span></p></div></blockquote></span>What about discuss /22 for new entrants, /20 for current list members and 36, 42 or 48 months for transfers ? Seems more reasonable in my view and cover most aspects of this discussion.</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:x-small"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:x-small"><br clear="all"></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="text-align:left"><font size="1"><br></font></div><div align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1"><hr size="1" width="100%" noshade align="center"></font></span></div><p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy"><font size="1">Michael B. Williams</font></span></b><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1"> <br>Glexia, Inc. - An IT Company<br>USA Direct: <span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span id="gc-number-3723" class="gc-cs-link" title="Call with Google Voice">+1 978 477 6797</span></span></span></span><br>USA Toll Free: <span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span id="gc-number-3724" class="gc-cs-link" title="Call with Google Voice">+1 800 675 0297</span></span></span></span> x101<br></font></span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:x-small">AUS Direct: </span><span title="Call with Google Voice" style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:x-small"><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice">+61 3 8594 2265</span></span></span><br style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:x-small"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:x-small">AUS Free Call: </span><span title="Call with Google Voice" style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:x-small"><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice">+61 1800 931 724</span></span></span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:x-small"> x101</span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1"><br>Fax: <span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span title="Call with Google Voice"><span id="gc-number-3725" class="gc-cs-link" title="Call with Google Voice">+1.815-301-5570</span></span></span></span><br><a href="mailto:Michael.Williams@glexia.com" title="Michael.Williams@glexia.com" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank"><span style="color:navy">Michael.Williams@glexia.com</span></a><br><span style="color:navy"><a href="https://www.glexia.com/" title="http://www.glexia.com/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">https://www.glexia.com/</a><br></span></font></span><a href="https://www.glexia.com.au/" title="http://www.glexia.com/" style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:x-small;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank"><span style="color:navy">https://www.glexia.com.au/</span></a><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:x-small"> </span></p><p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><font size="1"><b><span style="color:navy">Legal Notice:</span></b><br>The information in this electronic mail message is the sender's confidential business and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee(s). Access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. </font><br></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 10:50 AM Fernando Frediani <<a href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806moz-cite-prefix">On 29/05/2019 11:31, Mike Burns wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Orgs will
wait out any period, sitting with unused addresses until
they reach the resale date. Not efficient use.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>If it's not a legacy resource and if ARIN gets to know about it,
it may just recover this addresses even if the resource holder is
paying it correctly. That's how it should work.</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u><br>
<u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">People will
lease unused addresses to others and Whois accuracy will
suffer if they can’t resell them. Not accurate registration.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>If people lease they prove they have no use for the addresses and
again ARIN should recover them at any time. If whois is
inaccurate, well it is their fault and not policies fault. They
must bind to the current rules not the other way round.</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u><br>
<u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I think we
should give everybody currently on the list up to a /19 and
then restrict new entries to a /22.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Fair to discuss this scenario, although I still think /19 is too
much. Agree on /22 for new entries.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I think a 5
year resale wait is too long, based on the paltry resales of
prior waiting-list subnets smaller than /19.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
It may be long, but 2 years seems a little short and 'acceptable'
for a fraudster. Perhaps something in between.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I support a
/22 restriction for new entrants, a /19 max for current list
members, and maintenance of the 12 month wait for
simplicity’s sake.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
What about discuss /22 for new entrants, /20 for current list
members and 36, 42 or 48 months for transfers ? Seems more
reasonable in my view and cover most aspects of this discussion.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Regards,<br>
Mike<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> ARIN-PPML
<a class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank"><arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fernando
Frediani<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 29, 2019 8:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4 blocks
transferred after issuance<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p>+1<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 28/05/2019 23:52, Owen DeLong wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Mike, <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes and no. I believe that the lack of
legacy holders for any blocks issued under 4.1.8 reduces
the need for the market.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Defunct organizations can easily be
reclaimed in this space because they stop paying their
ARIN bill.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Eliminating the resale value of these
addresses won’t really encourage squatting on them and
limiting the size of organization and size of block that
can benefit from 4.1.8 further helps to reduce the
potential for hoarding.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I realize that as a broker, any address
that can’t be monetized is a lost opportunity for your
organization, but I think there’s plenty of addresses out
there that haven’t been processed through 4.1.8, so I
don’t think limiting the resale potential of such blocks
to reduce fraud is a bad idea.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Owen<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On May 28, 2019, at 12:46 , Mike
Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" target="_blank">mike@iptrading.com</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The percentages of blocks
transferred takes a significant leap at the /19
size.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Below that, the percentages are
all below 7%.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">At /19 and above, the
percentages are all above 21%.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Seems like a natural
demarcation for maximum block size, but prices do
continue to rise.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">While we want to fight fraud,
we should still remember the underlying reasons
for the Ipv4 transfer market apply to these
addresses as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">That is, the market provides
incentives for efficient use and accurate
registration.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<br>
Mike<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b><span class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML
<<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</span></a>><span class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John
Curran<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday,
May 28, 2019 1:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML
List <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">arin-ppml@arin.net</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806apple-converted-space"> </span>[arin-ppml]
Waiting List IPv4 blocks transferred after
issuance<br>
<b>Importance:</b><span class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806apple-converted-space"> </span>High<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Folks - <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It occurred to me that it
might be useful to have a quick summary of
waiting list blocks issued and subsequently
transferred. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Attached is the distribution
(count per prefix size) of all blocks that have
been issued via ARIN's waiting list policy and
subsequently transferred via NRPM 8.2/8.3/8.4
policy.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">FYI,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">/John<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">John Curran<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">President and CEO<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">American Registry for
Internet Numbers<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><image001.png><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br>
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Please contact<span class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">info@arin.net</span></a><span class="gmail-m_-6964212668442062806apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">if
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>ARIN-PPML<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<u></u><u></u></pre>
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<pre>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<u></u><u></u></pre>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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