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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Just to be clear what market incentives we are affecting with these waiting list considerations.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>These considerations apply to non-fraudsters.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Defunct orgs will keep paying the ARIN bill if it is profitable to do so, in order to maintain the ability to sell/lease later.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Orgs will wait out any period, sitting with unused addresses until they reach the resale date. Not efficient use.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>People will lease unused addresses to others and Whois accuracy will suffer if they can’t resell them. Not accurate registration.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Each of these is likely to occur with the increase in waiting period and/or the prevention of resale.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Prevent fraud by all reasonable means, but realize this is a balancing act, and my post was in reference to where on the scale we place the fulcrum.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>I think we should give everybody currently on the list up to a /19 and then restrict new entries to a /22.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>I think a 5 year resale wait is too long, based on the paltry resales of prior waiting-list subnets smaller than /19.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>I think we are over-reacting to a single miscreant and are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>The list was working pretty well in my estimation, if we can erect simple mechanisms to prevent future fraud, then we should try them first instead of a more complex, multi-aspect solution involving size caps AND resale restrictions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>I support a /22 restriction for new entrants, a /19 max for current list members, and maintenance of the 12 month wait for simplicity’s sake.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Remember, in RIPE and APNIC, the “special” blocks all begin with 185 or 103. Not so with these blocks, which are indistinguishable from other blocks. A small thing, but why go that extra step of creating a new address class in ARIN if we can avoid it?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>Regards,<br>Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='color:windowtext'> ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fernando Frediani<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 29, 2019 8:51 AM<br><b>To:</b> arin-ppml@arin.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4 blocks transferred after issuance<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>+1<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 28/05/2019 23:52, Owen DeLong wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Mike, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Yes and no. I believe that the lack of legacy holders for any blocks issued under 4.1.8 reduces the need for the market.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Defunct organizations can easily be reclaimed in this space because they stop paying their ARIN bill.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Eliminating the resale value of these addresses won’t really encourage squatting on them and limiting the size of organization and size of block that can benefit from 4.1.8 further helps to reduce the potential for hoarding.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I realize that as a broker, any address that can’t be monetized is a lost opportunity for your organization, but I think there’s plenty of addresses out there that haven’t been processed through 4.1.8, so I don’t think limiting the resale potential of such blocks to reduce fraud is a bad idea.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Owen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On May 28, 2019, at 12:46 , Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The percentages of blocks transferred takes a significant leap at the /19 size.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Below that, the percentages are all below 7%.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>At /19 and above, the percentages are all above 21%.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Seems like a natural demarcation for maximum block size, but prices do continue to rise.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>While we want to fight fraud, we should still remember the underlying reasons for the Ipv4 transfer market apply to these addresses as well.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>That is, the market provides incentives for efficient use and accurate registration.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<br>Mike<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;border-top-color:rgb(225,
225, 225)'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"><span style='color:#954F72'>arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</span></a>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>John Curran<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Tuesday, May 28, 2019 1:53 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>ARIN-PPML List <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"><span style='color:#954F72'>arin-ppml@arin.net</span></a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4 blocks transferred after issuance<br><b>Importance:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>High<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Folks - <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It occurred to me that it might be useful to have a quick summary of waiting list blocks issued and subsequently transferred. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Attached is the distribution (count per prefix size) of all blocks that have been issued via ARIN's waiting list policy and subsequently transferred via NRPM 8.2/8.3/8.4 policy.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>FYI,<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>/John<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>John Curran<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>President and CEO<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>American Registry for Internet Numbers<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><image001.png><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (</span><a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#954F72'>ARIN-PPML@arin.net</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br></span><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#954F72'>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>Please contact<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>info@arin.net</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>if you experience any issues.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>ARIN-PPML<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote></div></body></html>