<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Hayee,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A legitimate ISP leasing their space is of course is legal. In this case I'm talking about bad actors who provide false information to ARIN to get large block sizes, and then turn around and lease them to third parties. My point is that transferring/selling IPv4 blocks is not the only way to make a large amount of money by providing fraudulent information to ARIN. For this reason it does not make sense to use the transfer/block size information that John provided as validity that a /19 or lower somehow leads to less fraud.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">
<div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;">Robert Clarke</div>
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 29, 2019, at 1:38 PM, Hayee Bokhari <<a href="mailto:bokhari@cronomagic.com" class="">bokhari@cronomagic.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Robert,</p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">If the IP belongs to an ISP or a Network provider then every ISP or Network carrier always lease their IP's to their clients, that does not make it illegal, that is their business.</p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Thanks</p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Hayee</p><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><table width="100%" class=""><tbody class=""><tr class=""><td width="100%" class=""><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 5px; padding-left: 5px; border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px;" class="">Hello Mike,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Why are you using John's "waiting list IPv4 blocks transferred" numbers as a baseline for the /19 numbers? This is completely arbitrary and doesn't give any scale as to the problem with fraud. See my earlier reply to John's email in the other thread:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">"<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">Thanks for sharing. I'd like to note that it can be dangerous to use the blocks transferred via 8.2/8.3/9.4 as a metric for abuse. A fraudster that gets past ARIN's scrutiny and obtains IPs with fraudulent information is probably smart enough to lease their IPs as opposed to selling the space outright. There is a huge market for leased space, and those deals happen behind closed doors with no oversight from ARIN. IP addresses go for $0.2-0.5/mo depending on term/IP reputation/size which could lead to $XX,XXX in illicit revenue with no risk of ARIN's scrutiny which would normally occur during the transfer process."</span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks,</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">Robert Clarke</div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div class="">On May 29, 2019, at 8:13 AM, Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" class="">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="font-size: 12px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-indent: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); page: WordSection1; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Hi Fernando,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Thanks for the discussion.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Many feel as you do, that unused addresses should be returned to ARIN for subsequent distribution to those in need.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Unfortunately, that policy was not successful in bringing unused addresses into actual use by those in need.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">The community decided to harness the profit motive to incentive this process, and by all accounts it is working.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Unfortunately the profit motive also incentivizes fraudulent plundering of the waiting list pool.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">So I am happy to discuss the correct balancing of things to prevent fraud but allow the market to continue to drive us towards the desirable ends of accurate registration and efficient use.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Since the /19 is the threshold number of sorts for flipping, I could accept a /20 as the maximum size.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">I think a 2 year wait is reasonable, but I don’t see the additional benefit as worth the distinction of ARIN space into more classes.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">And making it more complicated with multiple waiting periods is even less desirable, IMO.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Regards,<br class="">Mike<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><b class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Fernando Frediani<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, May 29, 2019 10:50 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4 blocks transferred after issuance<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">On 29/05/2019 11:31, Mike Burns wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Orgs will wait out any period, sitting with unused addresses until they reach the resale date. Not efficient use.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div class="">If it's not a legacy resource and if ARIN gets to know about it, it may just recover this addresses even if the resource holder is paying it correctly. That's how it should work.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">People will lease unused addresses to others and Whois accuracy will suffer if they can’t resell them. Not accurate registration.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div class="">If people lease they prove they have no use for the addresses and again ARIN should recover them at any time. If whois is inaccurate, well it is their fault and not policies fault. They must bind to the current rules not the other way round.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">I think we should give everybody currently on the list up to a /19 and then restrict new entries to a /22.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Fair to discuss this scenario, although I still think /19 is too much. Agree on /22 for new entries.<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">I think a 5 year resale wait is too long, based on the paltry resales of prior waiting-list subnets smaller than /19.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">It may be long, but 2 years seems a little short and 'acceptable' for a fraudster. Perhaps something in between.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">I support a /22 restriction for new entrants, a /19 max for current list members, and maintenance of the 12 month wait for simplicity’s sake.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">What about discuss /22 for new entrants, /20 for current list members and 36, 42 or 48 months for transfers ? Seems more reasonable in my view and cover most aspects of this discussion.<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Regards,<br class="">Mike</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><b class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;" class=""><arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Fernando Frediani<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, May 29, 2019 8:51 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4 blocks transferred after issuance</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="">+1<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">On 28/05/2019 23:52, Owen DeLong wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Mike,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Yes and no. I believe that the lack of legacy holders for any blocks issued under 4.1.8 reduces the need for the market.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Defunct organizations can easily be reclaimed in this space because they stop paying their ARIN bill.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Eliminating the resale value of these addresses won’t really encourage squatting on them and limiting the size of organization and size of block that can benefit from 4.1.8 further helps to reduce the potential for hoarding.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">I realize that as a broker, any address that can’t be monetized is a lost opportunity for your organization, but I think there’s plenty of addresses out there that haven’t been processed through 4.1.8, so I don’t think limiting the resale potential of such blocks to reduce fraud is a bad idea.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Owen<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">On May 28, 2019, at 12:46 , Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;" class="">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">The percentages of blocks transferred takes a significant leap at the /19 size.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Below that, the percentages are all below 7%.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">At /19 and above, the percentages are all above 21%.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Seems like a natural demarcation for maximum block size, but prices do continue to rise.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">While we want to fight fraud, we should still remember the underlying reasons for the Ipv4 transfer market apply to these addresses as well.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">That is, the market provides incentives for efficient use and accurate registration.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Regards,<br class="">Mike<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</span></a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Curran<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, May 28, 2019 1:53 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML List <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</span></a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4 blocks transferred after issuance<br class=""><b class="">Importance:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>High<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Folks - <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">It occurred to me that it might be useful to have a quick summary of waiting list blocks issued and subsequently transferred. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Attached is the distribution (count per prefix size) of all blocks that have been issued via ARIN's waiting list policy and subsequently transferred via NRPM 8.2/8.3/8.4 policy.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">FYI,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">/John<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">John Curran<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">President and CEO<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">American Registry for Internet Numbers<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><image001.png><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">ARIN-PPML<br class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (</span><a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="text-decoration: underline; 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text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; float: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-indent: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" class="">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a></span><br style="font-size: 12px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-indent: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; float: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-indent: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important;" class="">Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" class="">info@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.</span><br style="font-size: 12px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-indent: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table>Hello Mike,</p><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Why are you using John's "waiting list IPv4 blocks transferred" numbers as a baseline for the /19 numbers? This is completely arbitrary and doesn't give any scale as to the problem with fraud. See my earlier reply to John's email in the other thread:</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">"<span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">Thanks for sharing. I'd like to note that it can be dangerous to use the blocks transferred via 8.2/8.3/9.4 as a metric for abuse. A fraudster that gets past ARIN's scrutiny and obtains IPs with fraudulent information is probably smart enough to lease their IPs as opposed to selling the space outright. There is a huge market for leased space, and those deals happen behind closed doors with no oversight from ARIN. IP addresses go for $0.2-0.5/mo depending on term/IP reputation/size which could lead to $XX,XXX in illicit revenue with no risk of ARIN's scrutiny which would normally occur during the transfer process."</span></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Thanks,</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class="">Robert Clarke</div></div></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div class="">On May 29, 2019, at 8:13 AM, Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" class="">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="font-size: 12px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-indent: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); page: WordSection1; font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Hi Fernando,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Thanks for the discussion.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Many feel as you do, that unused addresses should be returned to ARIN for subsequent distribution to those in need.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Unfortunately, that policy was not successful in bringing unused addresses into actual use by those in need.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">The community decided to harness the profit motive to incentive this process, and by all accounts it is working.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Unfortunately the profit motive also incentivizes fraudulent plundering of the waiting list pool.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">So I am happy to discuss the correct balancing of things to prevent fraud but allow the market to continue to drive us towards the desirable ends of accurate registration and efficient use.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Since the /19 is the threshold number of sorts for flipping, I could accept a /20 as the maximum size.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">I think a 2 year wait is reasonable, but I don’t see the additional benefit as worth the distinction of ARIN space into more classes.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">And making it more complicated with multiple waiting periods is even less desirable, IMO.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Regards,<br class="">Mike<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><b class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Fernando Frediani<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, May 29, 2019 10:50 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4 blocks transferred after issuance<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">On 29/05/2019 11:31, Mike Burns wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Orgs will wait out any period, sitting with unused addresses until they reach the resale date. Not efficient use.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div class="">If it's not a legacy resource and if ARIN gets to know about it, it may just recover this addresses even if the resource holder is paying it correctly. That's how it should work.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">People will lease unused addresses to others and Whois accuracy will suffer if they can’t resell them. Not accurate registration.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div class="">If people lease they prove they have no use for the addresses and again ARIN should recover them at any time. If whois is inaccurate, well it is their fault and not policies fault. They must bind to the current rules not the other way round.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">I think we should give everybody currently on the list up to a /19 and then restrict new entries to a /22.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Fair to discuss this scenario, although I still think /19 is too much. Agree on /22 for new entries.<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">I think a 5 year resale wait is too long, based on the paltry resales of prior waiting-list subnets smaller than /19.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">It may be long, but 2 years seems a little short and 'acceptable' for a fraudster. Perhaps something in between.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">I support a /22 restriction for new entrants, a /19 max for current list members, and maintenance of the 12 month wait for simplicity’s sake.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">What about discuss /22 for new entrants, /20 for current list members and 36, 42 or 48 months for transfers ? Seems more reasonable in my view and cover most aspects of this discussion.<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">Regards,<br class="">Mike</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><b class=""><span style="color: windowtext;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="color: windowtext;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;" class=""><arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Fernando Frediani<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, May 29, 2019 8:51 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4 blocks transferred after issuance</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class="">+1<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">On 28/05/2019 23:52, Owen DeLong wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Mike,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Yes and no. I believe that the lack of legacy holders for any blocks issued under 4.1.8 reduces the need for the market.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Defunct organizations can easily be reclaimed in this space because they stop paying their ARIN bill.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Eliminating the resale value of these addresses won’t really encourage squatting on them and limiting the size of organization and size of block that can benefit from 4.1.8 further helps to reduce the potential for hoarding.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">I realize that as a broker, any address that can’t be monetized is a lost opportunity for your organization, but I think there’s plenty of addresses out there that haven’t been processed through 4.1.8, so I don’t think limiting the resale potential of such blocks to reduce fraud is a bad idea.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Owen<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-left: 2em;" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">On May 28, 2019, at 12:46 , Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;" class="">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">The percentages of blocks transferred takes a significant leap at the /19 size.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Below that, the percentages are all below 7%.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">At /19 and above, the percentages are all above 21%.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Seems like a natural demarcation for maximum block size, but prices do continue to rise.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">While we want to fight fraud, we should still remember the underlying reasons for the Ipv4 transfer market apply to these addresses as well.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">That is, the market provides incentives for efficient use and accurate registration.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Regards,<br class="">Mike<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</span></a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Curran<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, May 28, 2019 1:53 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML List <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</span></a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4 blocks transferred after issuance<br class=""><b class="">Importance:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>High<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Folks - <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">It occurred to me that it might be useful to have a quick summary of waiting list blocks issued and subsequently transferred. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Attached is the distribution (count per prefix size) of all blocks that have been issued via ARIN's waiting list policy and subsequently transferred via NRPM 8.2/8.3/8.4 policy.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">FYI,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">/John<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">John Curran<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">President and CEO<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">American Registry for Internet Numbers<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><image001.png><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">ARIN-PPML<br class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (</span><a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="text-decoration: underline; 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margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New"; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New"; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class=""><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;" class="">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New"; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="">Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;" class="">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<o:p class=""></o:p></pre></blockquote></blockquote></div><span style="font-size: 12px; 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letter-spacing: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-indent: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; float: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-indent: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important;" class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:</span><br style="font-size: 12px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-indent: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; float: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-indent: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" class="">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a></span><br style="font-size: 12px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-indent: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; float: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-indent: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important;" class="">Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" class="">info@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.</span><br style="font-size: 12px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); text-indent: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant-caps: normal; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""></div></blockquote></div><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; 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font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Notice<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">This communication is intended to be received only by the individual[s] or<br class="">entity[s] to whom or to which it is addressed, and contains information<br class="">which is confidential, privileged and subject to copyright. 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