<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Owen wrote:</p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>I don’t mind waiting two weeks for your reply… I’ll
still be here.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Careful what you wish for...</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Owen, I'm sorry I used you, but I knew that if I poke the
bear I would have material to spare.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">About the paradise you described and that Steve Jobs described
a very different environment. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="PT-BR">You wrote:</span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>Actually, I visited such a place in 2005 as an
adult. The place was Naithon, Phuket,
Thailand.</p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>It is not a hippy community at all and I did not
encounter any Marijuana there.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I believe that you have visited such a place at Thailand. Do
you know why? Who smuggles drugs in Thailand is likely to be sentenced to
death. I ask you: Is it for this reason that you have turned the Internet into
a lawless land where sociopaths dominate, stealing people's information every
day and turning our mail box into an extension of your toilet bowl? 500 billion
a day ... dear, what hunger huh?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Never in the history of mankind so few have done so much
harm to so many. <span lang="PT-BR">A hurray to
BAADD, three cheers to GGM21C.</span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>I was running routers. You, by your own
admission, were not running routers at the time, so perhaps accept that I know
somewhat more about this history than you do.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I'm pretty sure you know all about it, but this story will
not be told by you. And when the actual story will be told you will be
remembered because YOU WAS RUNNING ROUTERS. And you will also be remembered for
making it difficult to craft rules that would turn the Internet into a
NaithonPhuketThailand.</p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>The security model at the time on the internet
was literally that of a small town where only good actors were expected to
participate.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Really? How was this put into practice? It was required of
the interested parties a certificate of moral idoneity issued by the Police? It
is admirable the effort you make to paint the sociopaths of the time as
righteous and respectable people.</p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>We must consider the environment of that time
when we are going to judge those who designed and built BGP4, not the
environment of 2014.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">The mood of the time was shit where humanity's extinction in
a nuclear war was feared. What matters are the acts that preceded the 2014
environment that has worsened every year. The current environment is not the
result of a plague from Olympus. It is the result of the collective action of a
community that has decided to enrich itself by irritating and robbing billions
of people. And it is the result of premeditated and criminal action in
considering everything "out of the scope" to maintain the lucrative
but criminal status quo.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Those who write their own AUPs, Codes of Conduct and PDPs do
not have the right to use the expression "out of scope". If use it,
they will be at least accomplice of illicit activity. They will be covering up
illicit acts of their customers. The name of this is Mafia. Not even the Italian
mafia managed to implement something as efficient and not imputable and as
comprehensive as the BBM21C.</p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>It is in the scope of those who run routers…</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Then it is in your scope, so tell us: Are you doing
hijacking and don't want interference?</p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>It is in the scope of the legislators who choose
to regulate these things…</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">It is not in the scope of these legislators and it is not a
choice of them. The civil society victim of this debacle that you all have
created is who pressures governments to intervene in what should be free and
self-regulated.</p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>Since ICANN’s only role in numbers… …I’m not
sure what role you think they could have in addressing numbers hijacking, but
please do explicate.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I explain. In the discussions I refuse to individualize the
crimes committed by ISP customers whether they are real or invented customers.
Individualization is done in denunciations, which are always copied to all
involved providers (network and hosting), registrars (DNS), ICANN, media and
governmental organizations or not.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">And I explain who ICANN is: There is no point in copying the
complaint to ICANN. They have a system that I call scare-people. You have to
fill out a long form on their website. Which of course scare anyone who wishes
to make a complaint. They are experts at disrespecting the victims of their
little friends. Whatever the complaint, ICANN requires the Registrar to be
informed. No matter how much evidence you include in the complaint, the answer
will always be the same: "We did not find any irregularities in the domain
informed." <span lang="PT-BR">Are not they
cute? They should be in jail.</span></p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>I’m pretty sure this is out of scope for the
Pope unless you want… I suppose the Queen of England could serve as your
advocate in parliament if you…</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I quoted the pope and the queen to ridicule the absurdity of
the lack of responsibility that you all want. Making a joke describing what it
would be like with the pope or the queen proves that you are just trying to
diverge to omit yourself in regard to the lack of responsibility for impunity.</p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="PT-BR" style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span>I
have never said that no-one is responsible. I have said that... The one thing
that ALL of those people who are responsible have in common… <span lang="PT-BR">THEY RUN ROUTERS.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Bla, bla, bla, bla... I'll tell you what all those
responsible have in common: AUP and ToS alike. All these proposals and
discussions are absolutely useless. Even if a proposal becomes a policy, it
will not change anything. You know this and you discuss proposals and policies
just to not address the core problem: an absolute lack of ethics. If ISPs and Registrars
behaved like stated in their AUPs and ToSs, and the RIRs and ICANN required
their customers to act accordingly, they would not be on the crime pages of the
newspapers. But they would be far less rich. So... out of the scope!</p>
<p class="gmail-MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span lang="PT-BR" style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span>I’m
guessing this is some reference to Pokemon (based on brief Google search). <span lang="PT-BR">Afraid I’m not familiar.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">If you want to connect Larry Ash from Mountain West
Telephone with Pokemon... Be my guest.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">You're right. Corrupt Internet is a dumb expression. People
can be corrupt. I overestimated the 80,000 ASs. They make the Internet work but
they are not the Internet. At the IGF-UN I have expressed my concern and the
danger of imagining *IoT* and *AI* being manipulated by these ISPs. May the
gods help us!</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Mr. Router, will the "768K day" happen? On May
1st, 700 billion spam were trafficked. What is the new goal? A trillion a day?
You are experts at pissing people off, are not you? What a sick profession!
After an exhausting day irritating people, can you sleep at night? Sociopaths
can do it!</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">That's it Mr. John Curran. Feel free to do what you have to
do because you no longer have any use for me. But know that everything we wrote
was not restricted to ARIN. It was shared with the world. Thank you very much.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Marilson</p></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em qua, 8 de mai de 2019 às 16:18, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On May 7, 2019, at 7:46 PM, Marilson Mapa <<a href="mailto:marilson.mapa@gmail.com" target="_blank">marilson.mapa@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="gmail-m_-7100655474850817171Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Owen, I almost cried with the paradise you described.</p><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>people of good will and good character</div><p class="gmail-m_-7100655474850817171gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>like a small town where everyone could leave
their doors unlocked</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">In the 20th century? Steve Jobs described a very different
environment. I was there and I was already an adult, and this paradise only
existed in the hippy communities sprinkled with marijuana.</p></div></div></div></blockquote>Actually, I visited such a place in 2005 as an adult. The place was Naithon, Phuket, Thailand.</div><div><br></div><div>It is not a hippy community at all and I did not encounter any Marijuana there. I’m sure it was probably available (it was illegal there at the time, but many laws in Thailand have rather limited enforcement and for the most part as long as you’re not harming anyone or making a fool of yourself in public it’s live and let live), but I wasn’t looking for it. I didn’t encounter the aroma of anyone else imbibing.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Besides, I did not mention the creation of the Internet.
Read again: “But the BGP has at its origin a critical design flaw.”</p></div></div></div></blockquote>BGP was created during a time in the internet before the WWW and before all of the problems it brought to the internet.</div><div><br></div><div>In fact, BGP version 4 (the still current version) existed during this early time in the internet. I was there. I was an adult. I was running routers. You, by your own admission, were not running routers at the time, so perhaps accept that I know somewhat more about this history than you do.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I mentioned the creation of BGP that replaced EGP, with
policy-based routing, a routing based on a set of non-technical rules, defined
by Autonomous Systems, to BGP4 designed to withstand the problems caused by the
great growth of the Internet.</p></div></div></div></blockquote>Yes, I remember it well. BGP4’s major enhancement vs. prior versions was the introduction of CIDR to cope with the growth of the routing table. This was a problem encountered well before the frenzy of e-commerce, web sites, etc. Literally, people were still managing routers with Telnet. BARRnet was still propagating RIP announcements from their customers into BGP. The security model at the time on the internet was literally that of a small town where only good actors were expected to participate.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I have a file with 1.3 GB of criminal attitudes from ISPs,
Registrars and ICANN, protecting and hiding spammers and scammers. Scammers who
were often the providers themselves. Since 2014 I have sent spam and scam
reports to these institutions. There were hundreds of ISPs, and everyone,
without exception, protected and concealed their customers. So keep these old
wives’ tale for your grandchildren.</p><div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>On the internet back then, a lot happened in 8 years… BGP4 was introduced with RFC-4271 in 2006. We must consider the environment of that time when we are going to judge those who designed and built BGP4, not the environment of 2014.</div><div><br></div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p class="gmail-m_-7100655474850817171gmail-MsoListParagraph" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>perhaps you would have a legitimate accusation </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">One? I have 1.3 GB. You insist on disqualifying me for not
having the technical competence to discuss these problems. Not being the
professional that you are, is a reason for pride. If not, let's see: I am an
architect and urban planner. I have been trained to provide comfort, security
and well-being to people in their homes, workplaces, amusements and in multiple
activities inside and outside the buildings. While your profession is marked by
providing irritation and malaise to billions of people.))</p></div></div></div></blockquote>No, you have 1.3GB of accusations against bad actors on the internet 8+ years after BGP4 was created. I am talking about your accusations against the designers of BGP4.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>I’m telling you that I don’t have good answers
to those questions and that I believe the RIRs to be the wrong tool for the
job.</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>You are again mistaken.</div><p class="gmail-m_-7100655474850817171gmail-MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt 36pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Wingdings">Ø<span style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman"">
</span></span>Yesterday was “out of scope” and today I believe
it is still out of scope.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">It is outside the scope of the Registrars, it is outside the
scope of the RIRs, it is outside the scope of ICANN ... It is out of the scope
of all. Should we appeal to Pope Francis? <span lang="PT-BR">Maybe to the Queen of England…</span></p></div></div></div></blockquote>It is in the scope of those who run routers… Find them in ISP fora and at the IETF.</div><div><br></div><div>It is in the scope of the legislators who choose to regulate these things… Find them in whatever governmental structures apply in your locale.</div><div><br></div><div>You say “registrars” and “RIRs” as if they are separate groups. The RIRs are the registrars/registries for numbers. If you’re talking about DNS registrars, then I’m not sure how they entered this thread as we’re talking about the hijacking of numbers and names do not enter the discussion.</div><div><br></div><div>Since ICANN’s only role in numbers is to maintain the central free pool and pass large blocks of numbers to the RIRs upon validated request, I’m not sure what role you think they could have in addressing numbers hijacking, but please do explicate.</div><div><br></div><div>I’m pretty sure this is out of scope for the Pope unless you want to pass laws governing the hijacking of numbers within the country known as the Vatican or set policies that Catholic Churches will not hijack other entity’s routes. (To the best of my knowledge, the Catholic Church for all it’s many foibles is not a significant source of BGP hijacking, someone please correct me if I’m wrong about that).</div><div><br></div><div>I suppose the Queen of England could serve as your advocate in parliament if you convince her, but I suspect you’re more likely to have greater success in approaching MPs directly. Given your writing style, I suspect you should start with the house of commons, but you’re certainly free to contact the lords if that is your preference.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">This situation you created is very comfortable, is not it?
When no one is responsible we have no one's land. Not the paradise you created
in the 20th century. But your old wild far west of the 18th and 19th centuries.
The insistence on not demanding ethical behavior from the community and respect
for their AUPs and ToSs takes them to the police pages of the newspapers. The
Economist coined the acronym BAADD for tech giants as a threat to democracy. I
coined the acronym GGM21C - the Great Global Mafia of the 21st Century. The
billionaires fines are being applied and the community insists on doing
nothing.</p></div></div></div></blockquote>Actually, the situation I have described (not created) is not comfortable at all. If I can find a way that ARIN is responsible and can control the situation, then I can find a way that the problem can be solved relatively easily. Unfortunately, since I live in reality, I must describe the situation as it actually exists on the ground and not how we might imagine we wish it had been created.</div><div><br></div><div>I have never said that no-one is responsible. I have said that those who run routers are responsible. Those who propoagate illegitimate advertisements are responsible. Those who originate illegitimate advertisements are responsible. Those who accept illegitimate advertisements are partially responsible and fully responsible if they pass them along to others. The one thing that ALL of those people who are responsible have in common… THEY RUN ROUTERS.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;line-height:115%;font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I repeat: Mr. Ash's swamp is not on prop-266, it's on this
corrupt internet that treats the population as beef cattle.</p></div></div></div></blockquote>I’m guessing this is some reference to Pokemon (based on brief Google search). Afraid I’m not familiar.</div><div><br></div><div>In any case, it’s hard for me to understand what you mean by “this corrupt internet” since there is not really any single cohesive entity that can be called “the internet”. What we refer to for convenience as “the internet” is the very large collection of thousands (maybe even millions) of independently owned and operated networks that happen to use the same protocol and through a variety of mechanisms make it possible for packets from any node on any one of them to reach virtually any other node on any of the networks in question.</div><div><br></div><div>Referring to “this corrupt internet” is kind of like referring to “this corrupt race” or “this corrupt society” or “this corrupt planet full of inhabitants”. It has no legitimate meaning.</div><div><br></div><div>In any group so large, one will have a variety of actors. Whether any individual actor is good or bad is a value judgment made by individuals, laws, governments, courts, or others.</div><div><br></div><div>Whether a society as a whole is corrupt is a much more difficult classification and is generally unlikely to be accurate in either direction due to the presence of both corrupt and non-corrupt individuals in any given group.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br></div><div>P.S. I don’t mind waiting two weeks for your reply… I’ll still be here.</div><div><br></div><br></div></blockquote></div></div>