<div dir="ltr">With the current policy, as proposed by the AC's response, as long as you have less than a total of three /22s or less direct resources, you could get up to two additional /22s but not a /21 all at once. Note if you have no direct resources at all, you can get up to 5 /22s over a time of at least a year and a quarter plus the wait time on the list. <div><br></div><div>Smaller blocks over time seem fairer as it allows more entities a bit at the apple. We could allow /21s instead of /22s but then we should probably extend the time before you can get back on the list to 6 months.</div><div><br></div><div>it would be good to hear from more people on these issues.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 10:55 AM Christian Lefrançois <<a href="mailto:clefranc@diffusionfermont.ca" target="_blank">clefranc@diffusionfermont.ca</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi all,<br>
I agree with Michael Williams, I'm in the same situation, and on the waiting<br>
list for more than a year. I need a /21, to finally be free of upstream<br>
providers fees for IPv4 addresses (lease). I'll gladly give back all<br>
resources to ARIN in the eventuality of end of business, or if I can manage<br>
to switch completely to IPv6. Not interested with the IPv4 black market.<br>
<br>
I'm in charge of a very small coop cable operator, my market is about 1900<br>
customers, we're hooking members as fast as possible, will reach (and<br>
surpass) /22 in a few months. So, in my perspective, /21 should be the<br>
maximum.<br>
<br>
Christian Lefrançois<br>
Diffusion Fermont<br>
<br>
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Objet : ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 167, Issue 80<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Fwd: Advisory Council Recommendation Regarding NRPM<br>
4.1.8. Unmet Requests (Scott Leibrand)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 15:32:17 -0700<br>
From: Scott Leibrand <<a href="mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com" target="_blank">scottleibrand@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Michael Williams <<a href="mailto:michael.williams@glexia.com" target="_blank">michael.williams@glexia.com</a>><br>
Cc: Kevin Blumberg <<a href="mailto:kevinb@thewire.ca" target="_blank">kevinb@thewire.ca</a>>, "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Fwd: Advisory Council Recommendation<br>
Regarding NRPM 4.1.8. Unmet Requests<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAGkMwz5Bhp=SLVipZtx=fpu9ni2_uk_L3Tt1=<a href="mailto:5Lb3x5rNPQJtg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">5Lb3x5rNPQJtg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
There are organizations of all sizes with direct unmet needs for address<br>
blocks of all sizes up to /16 or larger. The waitlist is *not* intended to<br>
meet all such requests: it simply can't be done, because the free pool is<br>
empty, and there is way more demand than supply at a price of ~$0. Rather,<br>
the waitlist is intended to make sure that returned/reclaimed addresses are<br>
not stuck at ARIN, but rather distributed in a way that serves a useful<br>
purpose.<br>
<br>
Organizations that need large blocks of address space should be going to the<br>
market to acquire them, and transferring them to meet their justified need.<br>
Some organizations that need smaller blocks of addresses, but not urgently,<br>
can try to get them via the waitlist. But the more larger allocations we<br>
allow from reclaimed space, the fewer such organizations can be served, and<br>
the longer they'll need to wait. So it makes sense to me to have a<br>
relatively stringent maximum wait list allocation, particularly since that<br>
also reduces the financial reward to fraudulent actors and/or those<br>
attempting to game the system.<br>
<br>
So I support this policy, including the /22 maximum.<br>
<br>
-Scott (representing only myself)<br>
<br>
On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 3:19 PM Michael Williams <<br>
<a href="mailto:michael.williams@glexia.com" target="_blank">michael.williams@glexia.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Representing ARIN member organisation GLEXI-3 *I do not support* the <br>
> policy as written. Maximum wait list allocation should be at least a /21.<br>
> We have a direct unmet need for a /21 right now.<br>
><br>
> My argument is if an organisation receives an allocation from the wait <br>
> list they should have to return that allocation directly to ARIN if <br>
> not used. There should be no organisation to organisation transfer <br>
> allowed for IP allocations received from the wait list. That?d <br>
> eliminate all these crazy /16 allocation sales that we see now.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
> Michael<br>
><br>
> Sent from my iPhone<br>
><br>
> On 10 May 2019, at 17:36, Kevin Blumberg <<a href="mailto:kevinb@thewire.ca" target="_blank">kevinb@thewire.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> David,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I would rather see a limit or delay on the number of times an <br>
> organization can go back to the waitlist than prevent organizations <br>
> from getting any space from the wait list.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Would I be more supportive if the number was larger? I don?t believe <br>
> that is the right control mechanism, so no.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Limiting the size to a /22 was a way of distributing fairly to as many <br>
> organizations as possible and limiting the abuse vector.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Kevin<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> *On Behalf Of *David <br>
> Farmer<br>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 10, 2019 4:44 PM<br>
> *To:* Tom Pruitt <<a href="mailto:tpruitt@stratusnet.com" target="_blank">tpruitt@stratusnet.com</a>><br>
> *Cc:* <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Fwd: Advisory Council Recommendation <br>
> Regarding NRPM 4.1.8. Unmet Requests<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> If /20 is too small is their another size you would propose? a /19 or <br>
> a<br>
> /18 maybe? Do you have an argument for why that is the right number?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> When the AC looked at this there was strong support for limiting the <br>
> size of the organization that could qualify to ensure these resources <br>
> went to smaller organizations. But there were varying opinions on what <br>
> that size should be, /20 was just the option with the most support amongst<br>
the AC.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> This formulation also provides a limit on how many times an <br>
> organization can go back to the waiting list, allowing smaller <br>
> organizations more times to return to the waiting list, while limiting <br>
> lager organization to fewer times to return to the waiting list. And <br>
> organizations that already have more than a /20 must go to the market.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> A /20 limit, gives a new organization (with no resources) the <br>
> opportunity receive up to 5 allocations from the waiting list if they <br>
> got a /22 each time.<br>
><br>
> A /19 limit would allow a new ISP up to 9 allocations if they got a <br>
> /22 each time.<br>
><br>
> A /18 limit would allow a new ISP up to 17 allocations if they got a <br>
> /22 each time.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Please realize the waiting list is primarily a mechanism to ensure <br>
> resources are not stuck at ARIN, it should not be seen as a reliable <br>
> means of obtaining resources.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 2:45 PM Tom Pruitt <<a href="mailto:tpruitt@stratusnet.com" target="_blank">tpruitt@stratusnet.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I do not support the new text, specifically the limit of a /20 per <br>
> organization.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> The limiting of an organization to an aggregate of a /20 is a huge <br>
> hinderance of the ability of a smaller ISP to compete. A smaller ISP <br>
> that can win business on service and cost could lose that same business<br>
due to<br>
> simply recouping the IPv4 costs. Large ISPs will often give the IPs away<br>
> to win the business, and it costs them nothing as they received their IPV4<br>
> space for free. Additionally, many smaller ISPs operate in outlying<br>
areas<br>
> where IPv6 adoption will likely be slow, which will also hinder their<br>
> ability to push IPv6. I?m not sure at what point an organization<br>
becomes<br>
> ?large?, but the smaller organizations are the ones that will be hurt <br>
> by this limit.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> What happens to organizations that are currently on the wait list that <br>
> have an aggregate of a /20 or more? Do they still get a /22. Some of<br>
> those organizations have been on the list for over a year. Assuming they<br>
> played by the rules and made decisions based on the assumption that <br>
> they would get an allotment of IPv4 addresses, denying them any <br>
> addresses after they have waited a year or more could be very <br>
> detrimental to them. These policy changes and decisions affect the <br>
> smaller entities greatly, and they need some clarity.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Tom Pruitt<br>
><br>
> Network Engineer<br>
><br>
> Stratus Networks<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> <image002.png><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *From:* ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> *On Behalf Of *Andrew <br>
> Dul<br>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 6, 2019 4:09 PM<br>
> *To:* <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
> *Subject:* [arin-ppml] Fwd: Advisory Council Recommendation Regarding <br>
> NRPM 4.1.8. Unmet Requests<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Hello,<br>
><br>
> I'd like to bring your attention to another issue that may have been <br>
> lost in the flurry of other emails. We are currently in a 14 day <br>
> feedback period for the AC's response to the Board's suspension of the<br>
wait-list.<br>
> Please note the following updated text for the wait-list. Your <br>
> comments on this updated text are welcome.<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Andrew<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ===<br>
><br>
> If no such block is available, the organization will be provided the <br>
> option to be placed on a waiting list of pre-qualified recipients, <br>
> listing both the block size, for which the organization is qualified, <br>
> which in the case of the waiting list shall not be larger than a /22, <br>
> and the smallest block size acceptable to the organization. An <br>
> organization may not be added to the waiting list if it already holds <br>
> IPv4 resources amounting in aggregate to more than a /20 of address <br>
> space. Resources received via section 4.1.8 may not be transferred within<br>
60 months of the issuance date.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------<br>
><br>
> *Subject: *<br>
><br>
> [arin-ppml] Advisory Council Recommendation Regarding NRPM 4.1.8. <br>
> Unmet Requests<br>
><br>
> *Date: *<br>
><br>
> Mon, 29 Apr 2019 11:16:31 -0400<br>
><br>
> *From: *<br>
><br>
> ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a>> <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a>><br>
><br>
> *To: *<br>
><br>
> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Subject:<br>
><br>
> At their 16 January Meeting, the Board of Trustees suspended issuance <br>
> of number resources under NRPM section 4.1.8.2. (Fulfilling Unmet <br>
> Needs), and referred NRPM section 4.1.8 to the ARIN Advisory Council <br>
> for their recommendation.<br>
><br>
> The Advisory Council has provided its recommendation, and per ARIN's <br>
> Policy Development Process, the recommendation is hereby submitted to <br>
> the Public Policy Mailing List for a community discussion period of 14 <br>
> days, to conclude on 13 May.<br>
><br>
> Once completed, the Board of Trustees will review the AC?s <br>
> recommendation and the PPML discussion.<br>
><br>
> The full text of the Advisory Council's recommendation is below.<br>
><br>
> Board of Trustees meeting minutes are available at:<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://www.arin.net/about/welcome/board/meetings/2019_0116/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/about/welcome/board/meetings/2019_0116/</a><br>
><br>
> For more details on the Policy Development Process, visit:<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/</a><br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
> Sean Hopkins<br>
> Policy Analyst<br>
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Advisory Council recommendation:<br>
><br>
> In accordance with section 10.2 of the ARIN Policy Development <br>
> Process, the ARIN Advisory Council recommends the following actions to <br>
> the Board of Trustees in response to the Board?s suspension of part of <br>
> the operation of sections 4.1.8, 4.1.8.1 and 4.1.8.2 of the Numbering<br>
Resource Policy Manual:<br>
><br>
> Replace section 4.1.8 as follows, then reinstate the full operation of <br>
> sections 4.1.8, 4.1.8.1 and 4.1.8.2 immediately.<br>
><br>
> 4.1.8. Unmet Requests<br>
><br>
> In the event that ARIN does not have a contiguous block of addresses <br>
> of sufficient size to fulfill a qualified request, ARIN will provide <br>
> the requesting organization with the option to specify the smallest <br>
> block size they?d be willing to accept, equal to or larger than the <br>
> applicable minimum size specified elsewhere in ARIN policy. If such a <br>
> smaller block is available, ARIN will fulfill the request with the <br>
> largest single block available that fulfills the request.<br>
><br>
> If no such block is available, the organization will be provided the <br>
> option to be placed on a waiting list of pre-qualified recipients, <br>
> listing both the block size, for which the organization is qualified, <br>
> which in the case of the waiting list shall not be larger than a /22, <br>
> and the smallest block size acceptable to the organization. An <br>
> organization may not be added to the waiting list if it already holds <br>
> IPv4 resources amounting in aggregate to more than a /20 of address <br>
> space. Resources received via section 4.1.8 may not be transferred within<br>
60 months of the issuance date.<br>
><br>
> Repeated requests, in a manner that would circumvent 4.1.6, are not<br>
> allowed: an organization may only receive one allocation, assignment, <br>
> or transfer every 3 months, but ARIN, at its sole discretion, may <br>
> waive this requirement if the requester can document a change in <br>
> circumstances since their last request that could not have been <br>
> reasonably foreseen at the time of the original request, and which now<br>
justifies additional space.<br>
> Qualified requesters whose request cannot be immediately met will also <br>
> be advised of the availability of the transfer mechanism in section <br>
> 8.3 as an alternative mechanism to obtain IPv4 addresses.<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> ARIN-PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN <br>
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> _______________________________________________<br>
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><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> ===============================================<br>
> David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>
> Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information <br>
> Technology University of Minnesota<br>
> 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br>
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>
> ===============================================<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> ARIN-PPML<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_7914588300441468981gmail_signature">===============================================<br>David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota <br>2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>=============================================== </div>