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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/05/2019 07:30, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"
lang="EN-US">So, you’re saying that if an ARIN member is *<b>acting</b>*
against the exclusive rights of use resources allocated to
other members, not by accident, and repeatedly, is just *<b>fine</b>*
and ARIN should not even remind the member that he is
acting against the rules?</span></p>
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<p>I think this sentence resumes well this issue.</p>
<p>For those who believe is out of scope try to think that it is NOT
about determining what people will do with their routers or their
network, but it IS about the RIR, a membership model entity to
define and state what kind of rules apply for members to continue
being members, like for example not try to invade someoneelse's
right. I really can't see what is wrong in having this obvious
rule in place so why I believe it is in scope.</p>
<p>Regards<br>
Fernando<br>
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lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
Regards,<br>
Jordi<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
El 2/5/19 8:59, "ARIN-PPML en nombre de Owen DeLong"
<<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>
en nombre de <a href="mailto:owen@delong.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">owen@delong.com</a>>
escribió:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">On May
1, 2019, at 18:08 , Fernando Frediani <<a
href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">fhfrediani@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
On 01/05/2019 17:17, Joe Provo wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
"Distribution function" is indeed merely agreeing
that the data<br>
recorded in the registry is accurate. There's no
dibursement of<br>
anything. When we bought our house and land, the
registry of<br>
deeds was similar only involved in verifying that
the transfer<br>
from the previous holders to us was a valid
contract within the<br>
scope of its operations (the state in which we
live). When a<br>
neighbor was doing a construction project and we
had to go block<br>
their heavy equipment, the registrar of deeds sure
didn't come<br>
and settle the dispute. We went down, got the
county map and<br>
they agreed. if they hadn't, law enforcement and
courts would<br>
have been the next step.<br>
<br>
This, like all Internet analogies, is poor; my
thrust is that rfg's<br>
is worse. To parallel ARIN with a transportation
agency's "line<br>
drawing" and officials embued with law enforcement
is wildly off<br>
track.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt">That's
not that same thing unfortunately. Your house and
land belong to you until you sell it, the resources
the RIR assign to people **never** belong to them,
they are not a property. Instead they remain under
their responsibility and they may unassigned if
misused or for other reasons.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><br>
The following is strictly my opinion. It may well
deviate from the legal theories under which the RIRs
currently operate.<br>
<br>
The county can revoke your deed if you don’t pay
your property taxes.<br>
<br>
ARIN can revoke your registration if you don’t pay
your ARIN fees.<br>
<br>
The county can revoke your deed if they find that
it was recorded under fraudulent pretense.<br>
<br>
ARIN can revoke your resources if they find your
registration was obtained under fraudulent pretense.<br>
<br>
The only difference is in what is being
registered/recorded by the different registries. The
property registry in the various counties registers
property.<br>
<br>
ARIN registers numbers to guarantee uniqueness
among cooperating parties.<br>
<br>
As has been repeatedly stated in this debate, ARIN
has no control or authority over non-cooperating
parties that have not signed a contract with ARIN.<br>
<br>
An entity which has no contract with the RIRs
really can use any integers they want in any way they
want to the extent that others are willing to accept
that use.<br>
<br>
If someone wants to claim 10.0.0.0/8 as a public
address and route it on the internet, the RIRs cannot
do anything to stop them unless it violates an RIR
contract that said entity is a party to.<br>
<br>
If they can find enough ISPs willing to route that
on their behalf, then de facto, that address range
will be theirs and it really doesn’t matter what the
RIRs have to say about it.<br>
<br>
The internet works because the vast majority of
networks choose to cooperate with the RIR system and
work within the system to preserve uniqueness.<br>
<br>
There’s no law that prevents this from becoming
balkanized and disintegrating into competing
non-unique uses of address space. I hope that doesn’t
happen and fortunately, there’s enough financial
interest in the process to make sure the majority of
ISPs continue to not want it as well.<br>
<br>
Nonetheless, it is important to understand just how
fragile this ecosystem actually is and just how
limited the power of the RIRs actually is.<br>
<br>
Owen<br>
<br>
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