<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Operators in multiple regions should be able to get resources from any or all of the RIRs that serve the regions where they are operating…<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If they are advertising global aggregates, then it is logical for them to deal with a single RIR to maximize aggregation. If they are announcing geographically specific routes, then it makes more sense for them to obtain resources locally according to their geography.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Territorial exclusivity is, in fact, one of the fundamental tenants of ICP-2.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So the short answer to your question is YES, with caveats regarding the (minority) of operators that are operating in multiple regions.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I take exception to your characterization of any of the RIRs as “bad policies” or “extortionate fees” as I don’t believe that is the case in any of the RIRs. Further, the fees in each RIR are set by the board which is elected by the RIR members. If you feel the fees are extortionate, then elect a different board. All of the RIRs have an open public policy process, so if you feel that the policies are bad, change them. I’m pretty sure you’re aware of this, having served on the AC and having authored a recent policy proposal in the ARIN region.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Admittedly, I think your proposal would constitute bad policy.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">At the end of the day, while the RIRs are industry trade associations, the policies by which they administer IP number resources in their respective regions are akin to governance.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Organizations have the same rights to change RIRs as they have when it comes to changing governments. If you don’t like the RIR fees/Government taxes and/or you don’t like the RIR policies/Government laws, then you can, indeed, vote with your feet by packing up your operation and going elsewhere.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">What you shouldn’t be able to do is enjoy all the benefits of being in a given location without being subject to the same rules, restrictions, and fees as any local-only operator.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 7, 2019, at 7:57 AM, Mueller, Milton L <<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu" class="">milton@gatech.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="">Let me see if I understand this sentiment that we want to discourage "forum shopping." </div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="">Are the people who say this advocating that RIRs should be insulated from any competition, that number resource users should be locked in to a particular RIR because of their geographic region (despite many of them having facilities and operations in multiple regions) and there should be no way for them to escape bad policies or extortionate fees by "voting with their feet." Did I get that right? </div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class="">Whose interests does that serve? </div><div id="appendonsend" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""></div><hr tabindex="-1" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; display: inline-block; width: 931px;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""></span><div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> on behalf of Erik Bais <<a href="mailto:ebais@a2b-internet.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">ebais@a2b-internet.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, April 6, 2019 5:15 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-4: Allow Inter-regional IPv6 Resource Transfers</font><div class=""> </div></div><div lang="EN-IE" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div class="x_WordSection1"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span lang="NL" style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Hi,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang="NL" style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">I would like to propose to focus on number resources and limit the usage of IPv4, IPv6 or AS numbers in policy text as much as possible. </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">We made this step in the RIPE transfer policies a couple years ago ( example the RIPE transfer policy : <a href="https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-682" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-682</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>)</span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">It will allow for easier / more general policies and it still allows to limit transfer limitations for specific resources.. like 16 bit AS’ns or IPv4 space. (scares resources )</span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">On the topic of looking for shopping for the better RIR policies or cheaper RIR’s, I don’t think that is something we should be too worried about. </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Most RIR’s have a requirement for usage in the service region where the RIR is anyway.</span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Dis-allowing transfers for IPv6 and saying to people that they would have to renumber and request new resources from other RIR’s, will not increase the adoption of v6 usage.</span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">I would support the change to the inter-rir transfer section of the section 8.4</span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Regards,</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Erik Bais</span></div><p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""> </span></p></div></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">ARIN-PPML</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (</span><a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">).</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">info@arin.net</a><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.</span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>