<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Correction…<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">APNIC and RIPE already have policy to support this process with no utilization.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 13, 2018, at 16:03 , Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com" class="">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">I support the policy and note that:<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The costs to implement are practically zero.<br class=""></div><div class="">Some community members have requested this ability, who are we to gainsay their reasons?<br class=""></div><div class="">The changes to the NRPM are tiny and discrete.<br class=""></div><div class="">No downsides to the implementation this policy have been offered in any comments, if the need is tiny, so is ARIN staff time expended.<br class=""></div><div class="">APNIC and RIPE are already engaged in this process with no ill effects.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards,<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Mike<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="zmail_extra"><div id="Zm-_Id_-Sgn1" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">---- On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 19:00:28 -0400 <b class="">Steven Ryerse <<a href="mailto:SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com" class="">SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com</a>></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote ----<br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote style="border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 6px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 5px;" class=""><div class=" zm_-7117856827475239677_parse_-1410359862467195784"><div class="x_-425171006WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class="">+1<br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""><i class=""><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">Steven Ryerse</span></span></i><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""><i class=""><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">President</span></span></i><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""><i class=""><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338</span></span></i><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""><i class=""><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">770.656.1460 - Cell</span></span></i><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""><i class=""><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">770.399.9099 - Office</span></span></i><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""><i class=""><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">770.392.0076 - Fax</span></span></i><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "MS Mincho";"><span class="size" style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span></span><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span id="cid:0.28869205310.5227157432073947758.16535878a41__inline__img__src"><1.jpg></span></span><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "MS Gothic";"><span class="size" style="font-size: 10pt;">℠</span></span></span><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 14pt;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">Eclipse Networks, Inc.</span></span><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 14pt;"></span></span></span><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt; text-indent: 0.5in;" class=""><sup class=""><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 9pt;"> Conquering Complex Networks</span></span></span></sup><sup class=""><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="size" style="font-size: 9pt;">℠</span></span></sup><sup class=""><span class="colour" style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span class="font" style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;"><span class="size" style="font-size: 9pt;"></span></span></span></sup><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div><p class="x_-425171006MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;"></p><div class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Scott Leibrand<br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 13, 2018 6:52 PM<br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Job Snijders <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:job@ntt.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">job@ntt.net</a>><br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>ARIN-PPML List <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-2018-1: Allow Inter-regional ASN Transfers<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class="">If you operate a network with peering sessions, and you are forced to renumber your ASN, you either need to convince all of your peers to set up new sessions (which can be a lot of work, and usually means at least some of them will refuse/fail to do so), or you need to local-as prepend the old ASN onto your new one, resulting in a longer AS path over that session. Both outcomes are disruptive to a network's ability to maintain peering.<br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class="">Given that there are valid technical and business justifications for needing to keep the same ASN on a network whose locus of control switches continents, I believe it is appropriate to allow organizations who need to do so to transfer administrative control of their ASN between RIRs, and therefore support this draft policy.<br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class="">While it is certainly possible for some networks to easily renumber their ASN, that is not true of all networks, for valid technical reasons. I therefore do not find arguments of the "I've never needed to do that" or "I can't imagine why someone would need to do that" informative or convincing. To my mind, the only argument that would justify opposing ASN transfers would be one that details how such transfers would be burdensome to the RIRs or to the Internet community more generally, and would further show that such burden is greater than the benefit to those organizations it would help. As I, Job, and others have detailed the kind of organization that would be benefited by this proposal, it's not sufficient to assert that such organization do not (or should not) exist.<br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class="">-Scott<br class=""></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class="">On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 3:36 PM Job Snijders <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:job@ntt.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">job@ntt.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class="">On Tue, 14 Aug 2018 at 01:23, Larry Ash <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:lar@mwtcorp.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">lar@mwtcorp.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class=""><p class="x_-425171006MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;"></p><div class="">On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 14:47:09 -0700<br class=""></div><div class=""> Owen DeLong <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:owen@delong.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><div class="">>> On Aug 13, 2018, at 14:42 , Job Snijders <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:job@ntt.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">job@ntt.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><div class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">>> I agree with the proposal.<br class=""></div><div class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">>> I think this proposal is needed and addresses practical concerns: the alternative to transfers is “renumbering”, and renumbering<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">>>ASNs is a very costly and operationally risky proposition. There is no upside to restricting or forbidding this type of resource<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">>>transfer.<br class=""></div><div class="">>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">>> A question that remains: if you don’t want to transfer your ASN in or out of ARIN, then don’t, but why forbid others from doing<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">>>it? All resources should be transferable.<br class=""></div><div class="">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></div><div class="">> We can agree to disagree.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I agree with Owen, I just can't see a burning need. Renumbering seems to be a bugaboo that is just not that difficult.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class="">Even if you don’t see a need, would you want to preclude others from transferring their resource if they concluded it is a requirement for their business operation?<br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class="">I would think the transfer of the ASN would as costly, difficult and risky as migrating the resources onto a new ASN.<br class=""></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class="">I’m puzzled by your statement. Renumbering an ASN may involve operations on hundreds of routers and tens of thousands of BGP sessions - such renumbering clearly is costly and operationally risky.<br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class="">Transferring a resource from one RIR to another RIR is paperwork between RIRs - no router changes. A transfer and a renumbering don’t seem comparable at all. Do you consider IPv4 transfers costly and risky too?<br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class="">Kind regards,<br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> <br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;" class="">Job<br class=""></div></div></div></div><p class="x_-425171006MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in; font-size: 11pt;"></p><div class="">_______________________________________________<br class=""></div><div class="">ARIN-PPML<br class=""></div><div class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class=""></div><div class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a target="_blank" href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class=""></div><div class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class=""></div><div class=""><a target="_blank" href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" style="color: purple; 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