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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>+1 to William’s sentiments<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<br>Mike<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>william manning<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 13, 2018 9:26 AM<br><b>To:</b> Roberts, Orin <oroberts@bell.ca><br><b>Cc:</b> ARIN-PPML List <arin-ppml@arin.net><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Beneficial Owners<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>I think the example, (2014, DE shell, owned by proscribed parties, gets stewardship of resources, ARIN <should> due diligence on beneficial owners) has ARIN over-reaching the State of Delaware and the IRS/Treasury. If a legal entity passes documentation muster (as JC pointed out) then ARIN is obliged/compelled to follow its policies. In the case of suspect behaviours, DE can cancel the corporate registration and the IRS/Treas can sequester assets & block transactions. I believe a court could instruct ARIN to recover or assign resources. ARIN <IMnsHO> should stick to its knitting. ARIN <currently> has no business in maintaing a DNA registry of all natural persons who may have been associated in a transaction with ARIN over resource assignments and use that registry in cooperation with global LEA to catch perps. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>I hope ARIN never goes there.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>/Wm<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 5:31 AM, Roberts, Orin <<a href="mailto:oroberts@bell.ca" target="_blank">oroberts@bell.ca</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal>I am assuming Ronald is aware of this.<br><br><a href="https://www.arin.net/knowledge/rirs/ARINcountries.html" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/knowledge/rirs/ARINcountries.html</a><br><br>ARIN's geographical service area includes all of the countries in the list below. <br>Complete List of Countries in the ARIN Region<br>Canada Sector A 2 A 3 Region<br>CANADA CA CAN ARIN<br>Caribbean and North Atlantic Islands Sector A 2 A 3 Region<br>ANGUILLA AI AIA ARIN<br>ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA AG ATG ARIN<br>BAHAMAS BS BHS ARIN<br>BARBADOS BB BRB ARIN<br>BERMUDA BM BMU ARIN<br>CAYMAN ISLANDS KY CYM ARIN<br>DOMINICA DM DMA ARIN<br>GRENADA GD GRD ARIN<br>GUADELOUPE GP GLP ARIN<br>JAMAICA JM JAM ARIN<br>MARTINIQUE MQ MTQ ARIN<br>MONTSERRAT MS MSR ARIN<br>SAINT BARTHELEMY BL BLM ARIN<br>SAINT KITTS AND NEVIS KN KNA ARIN<br>SAINT LUCIA LC LCA ARIN<br>ST. PIERRE AND MIQUELON PM SPM ARIN<br>SAINT VINCENT AND THE GRENADINES VC VCT ARIN<br>ST. MARTIN MF MAF ARIN<br>TURKS AND CAICOS ISLANDS TC TCA ARIN<br>VIRGIN ISLANDS (BRITISH) VG VGB ARIN<br>United States Sector A 2 A 3 Region<br>UNITED STATES US USA ARIN<br>PUERTO RICO<br>PR PRI ARIN<br>VIRGIN ISLANDS (U.S.)<br>VI VIR ARIN<br>UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS<br>UM UMI ARIN<br>Outlying Areas Sector A 2 A 3 Region<br>ANTARCTICA AQ ATA ARIN<br>BOUVET ISLAND BV BVT ARIN<br>HEARD AND MC DONALD ISLANDS HM HMD ARIN<br>ST. HELENA SH SHN ARIN<br><span style='color:#888888'><br><br><br><br><br><span class=hoenzb>Orin Roberts</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: ARIN-PPML <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> On Behalf Of Keith W. Hare<br>Sent: July-13-18 7:50 AM<br>To: Ronald F. Guilmette <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>>; ARIN-PPML List <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Beneficial Owners<br><br>Ronald,<br><br>In answer to your question <br><br> I would like to know if there is, or would be, <br> general hostility to the notion of ARIN asking for<br> concrete documentation of the identities of the beneficial<br> owners (say, for 25% ownership or above) of non-publicly-traded <br> corporate entities to which ARIN assigns number resources.<br><br>I don't know about general hostility, but I personally am hostile to this notion.<br><br>I have a couple of reasons:<br><br>1. As a small company, we have better things to do than provide more documentation.<br>2. This looks a lot like a search for a problem in hopes of suggesting that the problem exists rather than a response to a real problem.<br><br>Keith<br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: ARIN-PPML [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] On Behalf Of Ronald F. Guilmette<br>Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2018 5:36 PM<br>To: ARIN-PPML List <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Beneficial Owners<br><br><br>In message <<a href="mailto:CAC4yj2X%2BhS4rjyCHiLagk9AQVWa3ZFYvs_0O2gE12YVXO2genA@mail.gmail.com">CAC4yj2X+hS4rjyCHiLagk9AQVWa3ZFYvs_0O2gE12YVXO2genA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Jason Schiller <<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com">jschiller@google.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>>I know neither of these directly answer your question.<br><br>Well, in a word, no. but I appreciate your response as it does shed a bit more light on this overall topic.<br><br>Of course, I have no real idea what the exact meaning of this phrase is:<br>"provided that the applicant has a real and substantial connection with the ARIN region". But that's OK, because I don't imagine that anybody else has either, and I intuit that this exact squishy phraseology was made a part of ARIN-2015-5 rather deliberately, to insure general acceptance of the larger proposal.<br><br>To return to my original point however, I would like to know if there is, or would be, general hostility to the notion of ARIN asking for concrete documentation of the identities of the beneficial owners (say, for 25% ownership or above) of non-publicly-traded corporate entities to which ARIN assigns number resources.<br><br>As should be evident, in the current era, and given the various shenanigans, political and otherwise, that have dogged the Internet generally in recent years, I personally am of the opinion that additional transparency is not only warranted but necessary, even if for no other reason than to fully comply with both the letter and the spirit of existing law and various international sanction regimes.<br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>_______________________________________________<br>ARIN-PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>