<div dir="ltr">I am making my first contribution to this list, but I have been following some of these threads. I think this is a very important question that is raised. The fact that all these bad actors are using the internet as the vehicle to establish structures to conceal their nefarious activities, I think will eventually impact the functions of ARIN, whether from a legal perspective, an ethical or even moral perspective. We should develop this discussion.<br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 11:00 AM <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Beneficial Owners (Ronald F. Guilmette)<br>
2. Re: Beneficial Owners (Bill Woodcock)<br>
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Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 22:57:44 -0700<br>
From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: [arin-ppml] Beneficial Owners<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:50316.1531375064@segfault.tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">50316.1531375064@segfault.tristatelogic.com</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
I have what I think is a rather simple question. Not a policy proposal.<br>
Just a simple question for now, but I suspect that most or all of you<br>
will be easily able to infer where I am going with this.<br>
<br>
I watched a really rather interesting YouTube video recently:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zelMqK52NRE" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zelMqK52NRE</a><br>
<br>
If you've ever taken any interest in the Panama Papers I, The Paradise<br>
Papers, The Panama Papers II, or if you've even ever been concerned<br>
about the activities of, say, the likes of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi or<br>
Vladimir Putin, then I do recommend that you watch the video, which<br>
is rather eye opening.<br>
<br>
The video, and another small piece of information that came to me recently,<br>
have together made me deeply curious to know whether or not ARIN, as part<br>
of its day-to-day normal operations, requires the production of any<br>
specific documentation of, or information about the beneficial owners of<br>
corporate/LLC legal entities to which it assigns number resources.<br>
<br>
Does it? And if so, how may these records be accessed?<br>
<br>
Certainly I've never seen any such information within any WHOIS record.<br>
All I see there is corporate names, nominal snail-mailing addresses, and<br>
nominal phone numbers. I know from experience that the addresses and phone<br>
numbers present in ARIN WHOIS records are, on many occasions, connected<br>
only to lawyers, incorporation agents, or opaque UPS mailboxes, and obviously<br>
this isn't the kind of information that interests me.<br>
<br>
If ARIN routinely collects documentation of the beneficial owners of the<br>
entities to which it assigns number resources, then I, for one, sure would<br>
like to know how to access that.<br>
<br>
On the other hand, if it doesn't...<br>
<br>
Well, we'll set that aside for the moment, and I'll just wait and hope for<br>
an answer to my basic question.<br>
<br>
I guess that another way of stating the question is: Is it trivially<br>
possible for persons or entities within, say, Russia, China, Iran, or<br>
North Korea to obtain a U.S. shell company and then proceed to leverage<br>
that in order to obtain number resources from ARIN?<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
rfg<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 16:45:37 +1000<br>
From: Bill Woodcock <<a href="mailto:woody@pch.net" target="_blank">woody@pch.net</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Beneficial Owners<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:E8F719E6-0EDC-42FC-A1D1-34FAA57BA20B@pch.net" target="_blank">E8F719E6-0EDC-42FC-A1D1-34FAA57BA20B@pch.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
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> On Jul 12, 2018, at 3:57 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette <<a href="mailto:rfg@tristatelogic.com" target="_blank">rfg@tristatelogic.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I am deeply curious to know whether or not ARIN, as part<br>
> of its day-to-day normal operations, requires the production of any<br>
> specific documentation of, or information about the beneficial owners of<br>
> corporate/LLC legal entities to which it assigns number resources.<br>
<br>
So, speaking generically, this is called ?Know Your Customer? or KYC regulation, and is common in banking and other financial services industries, mostly in an attempt to regulate money laundering.<br>
<br>
> Does it?<br>
<br>
To my observation, ARIN does more than most organizations, but less than organizations that are actually mandated to perform KYC checks by regulatory agencies. ARIN does not, for instance, visit the premises of its customers to meet and positively identify their executives, which is a process I have to go through with respect to some banks, for instance. I will note that that?s not a cheap process for banks to implement, and the thing at stake there is money, rather than IP addresses.<br>
<br>
> And if so, how may these records be accessed?<br>
<br>
That may be going in a different direction, which may not be a reasonable one? banks that follow KYC processes to identify their customers are responsible to banking regulators if they?re audited, they don?t publish the information to the public.<br>
<br>
> Certainly I've never seen any such information within any WHOIS record.<br>
<br>
So if you want to unmask the owners of corporations, I think you have a lot of hurdles to get over? I don?t think you can use ARIN as a magical shortcut to financial transparency.<br>
<br>
> Is it trivially<br>
> possible for persons or entities within, say, Russia, China, Iran, or<br>
> North Korea to obtain a U.S. shell company and then proceed to leverage<br>
> that in order to obtain number resources from ARIN?<br>
<br>
I suppose that depends on your opinion of what constitutes triviality. There are two steps there: establish a US corporation (which is very easy, compared with other countries) and apply for ARIN resources (and you already know how difficult, or easy, that is).<br>
<br>
<br>
-Bill<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Devon Blake</div><div>ICT and Development Consultant<br>22c Sullivan Ave <br>Kgn 8<br>,Phone: Office 876-649-9704, Mobile, digi 876-483-2632, flow 876-519-6266</div><div>linkedin:<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/deblade" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/deblade</a></div><div>website:<a href="http://www.myintellicenter.com" target="_blank">www.myintellicenter.com</a><br><br>To be kind, To be helpful, To network<br><b><i>Earthwise ... For Life!</i></b><br><div style="padding:0px;margin-left:0px;margin-top:0px;overflow:hidden;word-wrap:break-word;color:black;font-size:10px;text-align:left;line-height:130%"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>