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<p>I find the word "temporarily" even more obvious than
"non-permanently". If those two words don't mean the same thing,
then we definitely need a definition.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/10/2018 5:08 AM, JORDI PALET
MARTINEZ wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">What will be your opinion if I amend this
proposal, so it works for both IPv4 and IPv6, having this
text in section 2.5 (Allocate and Assign), make it shorter
and more generic:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">“</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white"
lang="EN-US">A unique IPv4 or IPv6 address or a unique IPv6
/64 prefix, which is non-permanently provided to third
parties, shall not be considered an assignment</span><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">Alternatively, if we don’t want to go so far as
to define the “size”:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">“</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white"
lang="EN-US">An IPv4 or IPv6 block of address, which is
non-permanently provided to third parties, shall not be
considered an assignment</span><span
style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="EN-US">I didn’t found short-term defined in the NRPM.
Do you still think we need to define “permanently” ? I think
saying non-permanently it is quite obvious, but maybe folks
disagree …<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black" lang="EN-US"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black"
lang="ES-TRAD">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="ES-TRAD">Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="ES-TRAD"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US"
lang="ES-TRAD"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">De: </span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">ARIN-PPML
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net"><arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net></a> en nombre de Jo Rhett
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jrhett@netconsonance.com"><jrhett@netconsonance.com></a><br>
<b>Fecha: </b>miércoles, 9 de mayo de 2018, 20:37<br>
<b>Para: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net"><andrew.dul@quark.net></a><br>
<b>CC: </b><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"><arin-ppml@arin.net></a><br>
<b>Asunto: </b>Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4:
Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><a
name="_MailOriginalBody" moz-do-not-send="true">"Nominative,
verb indirect" isn't English ;) Clean english structure
would be:<br>
<br>
"</a><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">A
unique address or a unique /64 prefix that is
non-permanently provided to third parties shall not be
considered an assignment. "</span></span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white"><br>
Or if you really want a descriptive phrase that
modifies the nominative you can get commas like so:</span></span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white"><br>
<br>
</span></span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white">"A
unique address or a unique /64 prefix, which is
non-permanently provided to third parties, shall not
be considered an assignment."<br>
<br>
I would also argue that this phrase is very vague
unless "permanently" is defined elsewhere in the
document. Wasn't there some phrasing around short-term
assignment? (sorry, too busy/too lazy to grab the
entire doc right now)</span></span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">On Fri, May 4,
2018 at 6:40 PM Andrew Dul <</span><a
href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">andrew.dul@quark.net</span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">I'd like to
suggest that the proposed policy text be shorted and
clarified. I don't believe all the examples are
necessary in the definition section.<br>
<br>
Add to the end of NRPM Section 2.5 - </span><a
href="https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#two5"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#two5</span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><br>
<br>
Current draft text: <br>
<br>
The fact that a unique address or even a unique /64
prefix is non-permanently provided to third parties,
on a link operated by the original receiver of the
assignment, shall not be considered a
sub-assignment. This includes, for example, guests
or employees (devices or servers), hotspots, and
point-to-point links or VPNs. The provision of
addressing for permanent connectivity or broadband
services is still considered a sub-assignment. Only
the addressing of the point-to-point link itself can
be permanent and that addressing can't be used
(neither directly or indirectly) for the actual
communication. <br>
<br>
My suggested rewrite:<br>
<br>
A unique address or a unique /64 prefix that is
non-permanently provided to third parties, shall not
be considered an assignment. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 4/24/2018 11:57 AM, David Farmer wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">I note
that the text in question is the subject of an
editorial change that the AC has recently
forwarded to Board for review, at a minimum the
policy text need to be updated to account for
this editorial change. Further, I do not support
the text as written.<br>
<br>
I support a change to section 2 that is not
quite so IPv6 specific and focused more on the
idea that providing hotspot, guest access, or
other such temporary access does not necessitate
the making of re-assignments from a policy
perspective. Furthermore, such uses are not in
conflict with the conditions of an assignment
(made by ARIN) or re-assignment (made by an ISP
or LIR). Also, If the details of RFC8273 need to
be mentioned at all, they should be someplace in
section 6, not in section 2, the definitions of
assign, allocate, re-assign and re-allocate
should remain agnostic about IP version.<br>
<br>
Thanks. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">On
Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 2:22 PM, ARIN <</span><a
href="mailto:info@arin.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">info@arin.net</span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">On
18 April 2018 the ARIN Advisory
Council (AC) accepted "ARIN-prop-254:
Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments"
as a Draft Policy.<br>
<br>
Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4 is below and
can be found at:<br>
</span><a
href="https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2018_4.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2018_4.html</span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><br>
<br>
You are encouraged to discuss all
Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will
evaluate the discussion in order to
assess the conformance of this draft
policy with ARIN's Principles of
Internet number resource policy as
stated in the Policy Development
Process (PDP). Specifically, these
principles are:<br>
<br>
* Enabling Fair and Impartial Number
Resource Administration<br>
* Technically Sound<br>
* Supported by the Community<br>
<br>
The PDP can be found at:<br>
</span><a
href="https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html</span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><br>
<br>
Draft Policies and Proposals under
discussion can be found at:<br>
</span><a
href="https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html</span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Sean Hopkins<br>
Policy Analyst<br>
American Registry for Internet Numbers
(ARIN)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4:
Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments<br>
<br>
Problem Statement:<br>
<br>
When the policy was drafted, the
concept of assignments/sub-assignments
did not consider a practice very
common in IPv4 which is replicated and
even amplified in IPv6: the use of IP
addresses for point-to-point links or
VPNs.<br>
<br>
In the case of IPv6, instead of unique
addresses, the use of unique prefixes
(/64) is increasingly common.<br>
<br>
Likewise, the policy failed to
consider the use of IP addresses in
hotspots, or the use of IP addresses
by guests or employees in Bring Your
Own Device (BYOD) and many other
similar cases.<br>
<br>
Finally, the IETF has recently
approved the use of a unique /64
prefix per interface/host (RFC8273)
instead of a unique address. This, for
example, allows users to connect to a
hotspot, receive a /64 such that they
are “isolated” from other users (for
reasons of security, regulatory
requirements, etc.) and they can also
use multiple virtual machines on their
devices with a unique address for each
one (within the same /64).<br>
<br>
Section 2.5 (Definitions/Allocate and
Assign), explicitly prohibits such
assignments, stating that
“Assignments... are not to be
sub-assigned to other parties”.<br>
<br>
This proposal clarifies this situation
in this regard and better define the
concept, particularly considering new
uses of IPv6 (RFC8273), by means of a
new paragraph.<br>
<br>
5. Policy Statement<br>
<br>
Actual Text<br>
<br>
• Assign - To assign means to
delegate address space to an ISP or
end-user, for specific use within the
Internet infrastructure they operate.
Assignments must only be made for
specific purposes documented by
specific organizations and are not to
be sub-assigned to other parties.<br>
<br>
New Text<br>
<br>
• Assign - To assign means to
delegate address space to an ISP or
end-user, for specific use within the
Internet infrastructure they operate.
Assignments must only be made for
specific purposes documented by
specific organizations and are not to
be sub-assigned to other parties.<br>
<br>
The fact that a unique address or even
a unique /64 prefix is non-permanently
provided to third parties, on a link
operated by the original receiver of
the assignment, shall not be
considered a sub-assignment. This
includes, for example, guests or
employees (devices or servers),
hotspots, and point-to-point links or
VPNs. The provision of addressing for
permanent connectivity or broadband
services is still considered a
sub-assignment. Only the addressing of
the point-to-point link itself can be
permanent and that addressing can't be
used (neither directly or indirectly)
for the actual communication.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
6. Comments<br>
<br>
a. Timetable for implementation:<br>
<br>
Immediate<br>
<br>
b. Anything else:<br>
<br>
Situation in other regions: This
situation, has already been corrected
in RIPE, and the policy was updated in
a similar way, even if right now there
is a small discrepancy between the
policy text that reached consensus and
the RIPE NCC Impact Analysis. A new
policy proposal has been submitted to
amend that, and the text is the same
as presented by this proposal at ARIN.
Same text has also been submitted to
AfriNIC, LACNIC and APNIC.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PPML<br>
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</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
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<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">--
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">===============================================<br>
David Farmer </span><a
href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">Email:farmer@umn.edu</span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"></span></a><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><br>
Networking & Telecommunication
Services<br>
Office of Information Technology<br>
University of Minnesota <br>
2218 University Ave SE Phone:
612-626-0815<br>
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell:
612-812-9952<br>
===============================================<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:35.4pt"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody">PPML<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
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