<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">I like this language a lot, and the strong reasoning behind it. <br><div><br></div><div><br>On Oct 3, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Richard J Letts <<a href="mailto:rjletts@uw.edu">rjletts@uw.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Angsana New";
panose-1:2 2 6 3 5 4 5 2 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cordia New";
panose-1:2 11 3 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cordia New";
panose-1:2 11 3 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}
p.msonormal0, li.msonormal0, div.msonormal0
{mso-style-name:msonormal;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:952401876;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:-605025174 67698711 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-text:"%1\)";
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l1
{mso-list-id:2133010238;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:832878158 67698711 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;}
@list l1:level1
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-text:"%1\)";
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level2
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level3
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l1:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level5
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level6
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l1:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level8
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level9
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">My point of view<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">a)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I am not sure why educational institutions are not able to pay the fees for other categories of usage, or why they need an exception.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">ARIN staff would need to decide if the application satisfies this: “a volunteer group, not-for-profit, non-profit, or charitable organization”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I’ve been involved with enough community groups to know that two of these have weak governance structures that fail when there are conflicts (a volunteer
group and being a non-core aspect of a charitable organization), inevitably leading to the collapse of the organization. I’m not going to prejudge that debate here, but consider striking them. If the community organization doesn’t have 501(c)3 status in the
US they are leaving out the opportunity to save money and get grants.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Without a legal entity ‘owning’ the space how would ARIN know they were dealing with, who is legally allowed to dispose of the space, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">b)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Who cares if they provide ‘other Information Technology services’ to their community; we’re talking about internet access here<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">c)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">‘Persons or entities’ seems redundant (It is like saying ‘people or not people’); who/what are the not a person and not an entity that are excluded?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">d)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I am not sure what is considered critical? Digging ditches? Pulling fiber? Responding to ARIN requests? Filing forms with the IRS?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">As an example I’m on the board of a non-profit. We decide on the aims, manage the membership, etc. but we pay [independent 1099] contractors for services
(editing and printing the newsletter, performing at concerts, concert sound, etc.). Some of these are non-critical (the newsletter), some are critical (the performers), volunteers some critical things (IRS tax returns, state registrations) and some non-critical
things (run the website)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">So I think I end up with something with fewer words.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre><span lang="EN-CA">“A community network is a network organized and operated by a volunteer group, not-for-profit, non-profit, or charitable organization<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-CA"> for the purpose of providing free or low-cost connectivity within their community. Volunteers play a large role in directing the activity of the organization, but some functions may be handled by paid staff.”<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">/RjL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre><span lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-CA">“2.11 Community Network<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-CA">A community network is a network organized and operated by a volunteer <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-CA">group, not-for-profit, non-profit, charitable organization, or <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-CA">educational institution for the purpose of providing free or low-cost <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-CA">connectivity, or other Information Technology services to persons or <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-CA">entities within their community. Critical functions may be handled by <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-CA">paid staff, but volunteers play a large role in offering services <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-CA">available through community networks.”<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>PPML</span><br><span>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to</span><br><span>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).</span><br><span>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:</span><br><span><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a></span><br><span>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.</span></div></blockquote></body></html>