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    <p>Hello Owen<br>
      I think we are really almost in total agreement! :-)<br>
      I think we use words a little differently, but It think<br>
      we want a similar result. "Address Tracking" was not<br>
      on my concerns list except for possible CPNI violations<br>
      which I see a solution of how to handle this.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Take care<br>
      Paul<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/26/2017 1:13 AM, Owen DeLong
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:C06AD355-7258-4292-B017-63EA8F7A6EB8@delong.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        On Jul 25, 2017, at 15:46, Paul McNary <<a
          href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" moz-do-not-send="true">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>>
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>
          <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
            charset=utf-8">
          Let me change "geolocation" to "address tracking".<br>
          For instance, Netflix blocks a certain region and whois is
          showing customer<br>
          in that region, whereas the customer is actually in a
          non-blocked region.<br>
          If I had my own IPv4 /24 or above I don't have any issue
          making this entry correct to ARIN.<br>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      I know for a fact that Netflix bases very little (if any) of their
      geo-fencing on Whois data. 
      <div><br>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div> But I have a /25 block from a datacenter that shows I am
            in California.<br>
            Their SWIP policy on IPv4 is /24 to SWIP.<br>
            We are trying to minimize these issues as we deploy IPv6
            when we have direct allocation.<br>
            I am not debating the "address tracking" issue just brought
            it up because I think John made a comment about it.<br>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        I think if you review the record I stated early on that I didn't
        believe geolocation was a practical use of Whois. </div>
      <div><br>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div> We see ebay, amazon, craig's list all using whois
            information.<br>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        Really? Source needed. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>In my experience they use other geolocation providers. </div>
      <div><br>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div> Also our /25's have been blocked at the /24 and /18
            level.<br>
            We had /24's blocked that are reallocated at the parent /18
            level.<br>
            So unless there is some way to enforce, it just seems to be
            words on paper.<br>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        Enforce what? Geolocation is a truly black art and there is no
        central clearing house or community driven policy body driving
        its practitioners. </div>
      <div><br>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div> <br>
            CHANGE of subject not topic<br>
            --------------------------------------<br>
            What I had wished to do on IPv6 deployment is assign an IPv6
            /48 to each Tower(WISP), each POP(ISP)<br>
            I would want that switched as will as any individually
            announced block smaller than that.<br>
            Haven't decided but have a separate /48 to handle DNS, mail
            servers, etc. ie Our Infrastructure<br>
            Anything less specific that a /48 would just add noise to
            the world and would be somewhat proprietary.<br>
            I give away some info just advertising my POP's/Towers but I
            think that would be for the collective good. :-)<br>
            The world doesn't need to know my Access Points or
            neighborhood routers, etc.<br>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        I see no reason you can't accomplish this under the proposed
        policy. I support the current draft as previously stated. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Owen</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <div>  <br>
            I think I need to get off my soapbox and take a nap now!<br>
            I know I ramble a lot, but getting too old to change much!
            :-)<br>
            Thanks<br>
            Take care<br>
            Paul<br>
            <br>
            <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/25/2017 5:17 PM, Scott
              Leibrand wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGkMwz4W8uaax9KcNM1fTbNhA=zSEJYuCGvVL7NxnumiP0-QyA@mail.gmail.com">
              <div dir="ltr">If I, as an End User network, want to
                inform geolocation providers of where I'm using each
                netblock, having them assigned to me in the whois DB
                with an appropriate address is one of the best ways to
                do that.  But if I'm running a geolocation service, I
                can't rely on whois as the sole source of data on where
                an address is used.  If I have other info that
                contradicts the whois information, I'd probably just
                ignore the whois data and go with the facts on the
                ground.
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>-Scott</div>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 3:12
                  PM, Paul McNary <span dir="ltr"><<a
                      href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>></span>
                  wrote:<br>
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                    .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Owen<br>
                    Several weeks ago geolocation was one of the
                    arguments for having accurate whois in this thread.<br>
                    This is no longer being argued?<span class="HOEnZb"><font
                        color="#888888"><br>
                        Paul</font></span>
                    <div class="HOEnZb">
                      <div class="h5"><br>
                        <br>
                        On 7/25/2017 4:26 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex"> Huh?<br>
                          <br>
                          WHOIS is not a geolocation service and anyone
                          who thinks it is should reduce their use of
                          recreational pharmaceuticals.<br>
                          <br>
                          Owen<br>
                          <br>
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                            #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> On Jul 24,
                            2017, at 12:03 , Paul McNary <<a
                              href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>>
                            wrote:<br>
                            <br>
                            Then that totally negates the reasoning for
                            geolocation.<br>
                            The administrative address could be on the
                            other side of the earth.<br>
                            <br>
                            Paul<br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            On 7/24/2017 1:31 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:<br>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                              #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                                #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> On Jul 20,
                                2017, at 14:28 , <a
                                  href="mailto:hostmaster@uneedus.com"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">hostmaster@uneedus.com</a>
                                wrote:<br>
                                <br>
                                My transit bus example is another
                                example of SWIP difficulty.  Very hard
                                to provide a street address to SWIP a
                                bus when it is mobile 16 hours a day.<br>
                              </blockquote>
                              Not at all. A bus would be SWIPd to the
                              bus yard or administrative offices of the
                              bus company. The SWIP data is not required
                              to be the service address, it is required
                              to be an address for administrative and/or
                              technical contact regarding the network
                              and/or legal process service regarding
                              same.<br>
                              <br>
                              [rest trimmed because we are in agreement
                              on that part]<br>
                              <br>
                              Owen<br>
                              <br>
                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                                #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> On Thu, 20
                                Jul 2017, Chris James wrote:<br>
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                  style="margin:0 0 0
                                  .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                  solid;padding-left:1ex"> @Paul - The
                                  API key is to email it.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  @Owen - Very difficult when you have
                                  dynamic ranges, and vps/container<br>
                                  platforms spanning tens of thousands
                                  of instances across these dynamic<br>
                                  ranges.<br>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:51 PM, Paul
                                  McNary <<a
                                    href="mailto:pmcnary@cameron.net"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">pmcnary@cameron.net</a>>
                                  wrote:<br>
                                  <br>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin:0 0 0
                                    .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                    solid;padding-left:1ex"> Owen<br>
                                    <br>
                                    The reassignment policy page says
                                    IPv6 has to be done vi API.<br>
                                    Is that something else that is
                                    incorrect on the web site?<br>
                                    <br>
                                    Paul<br>
                                    <br>
                                    <br>
                                    On 7/20/2017 3:16 PM, Owen DeLong
                                    wrote:<br>
                                    <br>
                                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                      style="margin:0 0 0
                                      .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                      solid;padding-left:1ex"> How can
                                      it be overly difficult to fill out
                                      an email template with your<br>
                                      customers’<br>
                                      Name, Address, Phone Number?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Really?<br>
                                      <br>
                                      Owen<br>
                                      <br>
                                      On Jul 19, 2017, at 23:48 ,
                                      Pallieter Koopmans <<a
                                        href="mailto:Pallieter@pallieter.org"
                                        target="_blank"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">Pallieter@pallieter.org</a>><br>
                                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                        style="margin:0 0 0
                                        .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                        solid;padding-left:1ex"> wrote:<br>
                                        <br>
                                        Hello,<br>
                                        <br>
                                        ARIN could quantify and require
                                        rules for when to SWIP, but in
                                        the<br>
                                        end, there are going to be
                                        exceptions needed if the rules
                                        are to be<br>
                                        strictly followed. Many will not
                                        separately SWIP a separately
                                        routed<br>
                                        sub-block if it is too difficult
                                        or pointless to gather and share
                                        that<br>
                                        data back upstream to ARIN.<br>
                                        <br>
                                        Thus a more fuzzy rule to
                                        require a best-effort and to add
                                        a<br>
                                        rule-based reason (preferably
                                        both a carrot and a stick) for
                                        block<br>
                                        owners to do their best to
                                        provide (only) useful data. In
                                        order to do<br>
                                        that, one needs to look back at
                                        why that data is needed. For a
                                        block<br>
                                        owner to assign the SWIP on a
                                        sub-block, he basically
                                        delegates tech<br>
                                        and abuse contact requests down
                                        to those that are probably more
                                        likely<br>
                                        to be able to actually act on
                                        the tech/abuse requests (and
                                        thus reduce<br>
                                        request-handling workload higher
                                        up and overall). But for that to<br>
                                        work, those tech/abuse contact
                                        requests need to be actually
                                        handled,<br>
                                        otherwise, it is better to leave
                                        them with the block owner.<br>
                                        <br>
                                        In the end, the contact details
                                        should be as close to the
                                        "person"<br>
                                        that is actually capable to both
                                        handle (think:
                                        volume/languages/etc)<br>
                                        and act (think: authority) on
                                        the tech/abuse requests.<br>
                                        <br>
                                        eBrain<br>
                                        Innovative Internet Ideas<br>
                                        <br>
                                        Pallieter Koopmans<br>
                                        Managing Director<br>
                                        <br>
                                        <a href="tel:%2B31-6-3400-3800"
                                          value="+31634003800"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">+31-6-3400-3800</a> (mon-sat
                                        9-22 CET)<br>
                                        Skype: PallieterKoopmans<br>
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