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<p>Tony<br>
</p>
<p>Do you mean BGP instead of BCP. I agree that IP's that are BGP
routable should be the proper place<br>
to place the SWIP requirement. Anything not BGP routable should be
considered local routed.<br>
</p>
Paul<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/17/2017 4:25 PM, Tony Hain wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
think we are in violent agreement here, other than the
ARIN membership is the wrong venue (not broad enough to
encompass the appropriate community) for the base
statement that SWIP data must exist for a routing entry.
If the appropriately broad community established that BCP;
a policy enforceable by ARIN staff would be “complies with
community established BCP’s related to routing”. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
only problem I have with the general braindead
conservation mindset that says a /48 is non-consumer, and
must be SWIPed while longer values would be only consumer
and therefore exempt. As far as it goes, if a consumer
convinced the ISP they had a technical need for a /36,
that should be exempt based on consumer protection. Length
has nothing to do with it. Identifiable routing slot
contact info is the “need” here, so anything that is not
broken out doesn’t “need” SWIP data. That said, this whole
paragraph, and most of the current discussion belongs in
another venue.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Tony<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"
moz-do-not-send="true"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></a></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
John Curran [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">mailto:jcurran@arin.net</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, July 17, 2017 12:25 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
Tony Hain<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-5:
Equalization of Assignment Registration requirements
between IPv4 and IPv6<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">On 17 Jul 2017, at 11:20 AM,
Tony Hain <<a href="mailto:alh-ietf@tndh.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">alh-ietf@tndh.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">John,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So
you are OK with a policy that says ARIN is
required to revoke address space if other ISP’s
choose to accept it into the routing table, but
there is no SWIP for it? To me that says you are
making a statement about “how things are routed”
by requiring a database entry before it gets
accepted into routing.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Calibri"
color="#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
have no problem with a BCP to the effect that
the data SHOULD exist, but as a policy this has
ARIN stomping right on the line it claims to
avoid.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Tony - <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">ARIN number resource policy
must be germane to administration of the registry;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">i.e. if you want a policy
that says an address block will only be issued for a
certain<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">reason (and that reason
includes some routing characteristic, such as
multihoming)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">then ARIN will have parties
represent that they intend to use in accordance with<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">that requirement, and will
investigate representations that appear to be
fraudulent.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">For example, a policy that
states that "IPv6 blocks will have SWIP performed for
any<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">sub-delegations which are
going to be individually announced by the ISP" would
be <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">a policy which is
enforceable, since the ISP is representing that
they’ll do “X" under <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">certain circumstances, and
it’s trivial to revoke if they fail to follow through
and we <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">receive a fraud report from
the community calling attention to that fraud. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Just remember, any
characteristic or behavior that you intend to
promulgate in this<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">manner effectively effective
defines or extends the scope of ARIN’s mission, so
it’s <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">worth being very cautious and
very certain before proposing such… The fact that <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">parties need IP address space
mean that they have little effective remedy to the <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">implications of
community-developed number policy, and so requirements
that aren’t <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">directly and clearly related
to ARIN’s mission (e.g. “requester agrees that they
will <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">put a statute of ARIN’s CEO
in their lobby within 12 months of issuance”) are
likely<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">to be found out of scope by
ARIN’s Board of Trustees...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">/John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">John Curran<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">President and CEO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">American Registry of Internet
Numbers<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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