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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So you are OK with a policy that says ARIN is required to revoke address space if other ISP’s choose to accept it into the routing table, but there is no SWIP for it? To me that says you are making a statement about “how things are routed” by requiring a database entry before it gets accepted into routing.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have no problem with a BCP to the effect that the data SHOULD exist, but as a policy this has ARIN stomping right on the line it claims to avoid.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tony<o:p></o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></a></p><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font face=Tahoma><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John Curran [mailto:jcurran@arin.net] <br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, July 15, 2017 5:53 AM<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Tony Hain<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> arin-ppml@arin.net List<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-5: Equalization of Assignment Registration requirements between IPv4 and IPv6<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Tony - <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To be clear, ARIN’s Internet number resource policy has historically avoided <o:p></o:p></span></font></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>statements that direct or forbid routing of IP address blocks, as ARIN’s role<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>as a Internet number registry is distinct from any role in administration of the <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Internet’s routing system. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Such a separation doesn’t preclude the community from adopting policy which<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>references the present or future state of routing (note, for example, the use of<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>“multihoming” criteria in several portions of the NRPM), but folks are reminded<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>that in Internet number resource policy we should only be specifying how the <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>ARIN registry is to be administered, not how things are to be routed, since the <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>latter is up to each ISP. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>/John<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>John Curran<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>President and CEO<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>ARIN<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p></div><div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>On 14 Jul 2017, at 9:25 PM, Tony Hain <<a href="mailto:alh-ietf@tndh.net">alh-ietf@tndh.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>David,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>While I totally agree with your reasoning, doesn’t that fly in the face of the policy that Arin says “nothing about routing”? It is one thing to have a BCP stating expectations for being able to find a contact for a routing entry, it is another to have a “policy” that a routing entry requires swiped contact info.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tony</span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><span class=apple-converted-space><font face=Tahoma><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></font></span><font face=Tahoma><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>David Farmer [<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu"><font color=purple><span style='color:purple'>mailto:farmer@umn.edu</span></font></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Friday, July 14, 2017 2:58 PM<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Tony Hain<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>William Herrin; Owen DeLong;<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"><font color=purple><span style='color:purple'>arin-ppml@arin.net</span></font></a><br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-5: Equalization of Assignment Registration requirements between IPv4 and IPv6</span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Rather than base it on the criteria of business vs. residential customer, how about simply basing it on the criteria, is the assignment intended to be or is used within the global routing system or not, or if the customer requests their assignment be SWIPed. Most residential assignments be they /56 or /48 won't be in the global routing system, neither will many business assignments either, after that then an assignment is only SWIPed if the customer requests it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>My reasoning for wanting to have /48s SWIPed isn't based on business vs residential customer type, which has a fuzzy definition sometimes anyway. Its that /48s might appear in the routing table. So just make that the criteria in the first place, if we are not going to based it on a specific size like we did in IPv4. Also, then any policy violations become easily apparent. If an ISP doesn't SWIP some of there business customers, how are you going to know anyway? However, if a route is in the route table and there is no SWIP that is fairly self apparent.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Tony Hain <<a href="mailto:alh-ietf@tndh.net" target="_blank"><font color=purple><span style='color:purple'>alh-ietf@tndh.net</span></font></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bill,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>To avoid the situation of Owen being a lone voice, I have to echo his point that it is insane that people persist with IPv4-think and extreme conservation. Allocations longer than a /48 to a residence ensure that automated topology configuration can’t happen, because /52’s won’t happen and /56’s are too long for random consumer plug-n-play. Therefore a policy that /48’s must be swiped ensures that we maintain single subnet consumer networks. A policy that says /48’s might be swiped (will in a business and not in a non-residential case) does not reinforce the braindead notion that longer than /48 has some special meaning beyond the need to kill off a generation of those with the ‘addresses are a scarce resource’ mindset.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tony</span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a name="m_2289219881633447079__MailEndCompose"><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></font></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><span class=apple-converted-space><font face=Tahoma><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></font></span><font face=Tahoma><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>ARIN-PPML [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank"><font color=purple><span style='color:purple'>arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</span></font></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></b>William Herrin<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Thursday, July 13, 2017 3:12 PM<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Owen DeLong<br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank"><font color=purple><span style='color:purple'>arin-ppml@arin.net</span></font></a><br><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-5: Equalization of Assignment Registration requirements between IPv4 and IPv6</span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank"><font color=purple><span style='color:purple'>owen@delong.com</span></font></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Consensus hasn’t yet been reached. I agree that there is significant support for “shorter than /56” actually (not /56 itself). Nonetheless, I don’t believe that shorter than /56 is the ideal place to put the boundary.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></blockquote><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Hi Owen,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I think you're an outlier here. I see consensus that /48 should be swiped and /56 should not. If there's debate that /52 or /49 should also not be swiped or that a some more subtle criteria should determine what's swiped, it's not exactly chewing up bandwidth on the mailing list.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Bill Herrin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>--<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>William Herrin ................<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:herrin@dirtside.com" target="_blank"><font color=purple><span style='color:purple'>herrin@dirtside.com</span></font></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span> <a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us" target="_blank"><font color=purple><span style='color:purple'>bill@herrin.us</span></font></a><br>Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <<a href="http://www.dirtside.com/" target="_blank"><font color=purple><span style='color:purple'>http://www.dirtside.com/</span></font></a>><o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net"><font color=purple><span style='color:purple'>ARIN-PPML@arin.net</span></font></a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank"><font color=purple><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</span></font></a><br>Please contact<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net"><font color=purple><span style='color:purple'>info@arin.net</span></font></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>--<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>===============================================<br>David Farmer <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank"><font color=purple><span style='color:purple'>Email:farmer@umn.edu</span></font></a><br>Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br>===============================================<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>_______________________________________________<br>PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (</span></font><a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net"><font size=1 color=purple face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:purple'>ARIN-PPML@arin.net</span></font></a><font size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br></span></font><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"><font size=1 color=purple face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:purple'>http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</span></font></a><font size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><br>Please contact<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></font><a href="mailto:info@arin.net"><font size=1 color=purple face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:purple'>info@arin.net</span></font></a><span class=apple-converted-space><font size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'> </span></font></span><font size=1 face=Helvetica><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>if you experience any issues.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>