<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 14, 2017, at 14:57 , David Farmer <<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" class="">farmer@umn.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Rather than base it on the criteria of business vs. residential customer, how about simply basing it on the criteria, is the assignment intended to be or is used within the global routing system or not, or if the customer requests their assignment be SWIPed. Most residential assignments be they /56 or /48 won't be in the global routing system, neither will many business assignments either, after that then an assignment is only SWIPed if the customer requests it.</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>I’d be fine with that, but I’ll point out it’s a much more complicated policy to express vs. the simple definition in section 2 that already exists for residential.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>As you stated, both mechanisms largely capture the same set of assignments.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">My reasoning for wanting to have /48s SWIPed isn't based on business vs residential customer type, which has a fuzzy definition sometimes anyway. Its that /48s might appear in the routing table. So just make that the criteria in the first place, if we are not going to based it on a specific size like we did in IPv4. Also, then any policy violations become easily apparent. If an ISP doesn't SWIP some of there business customers, how are you going to know anyway? However, if a route is in the route table and there is no SWIP that is fairly self apparent.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>I’d argue that most /48s that are likely to be SWIP’d are unlikely to appear in the GRT because most of them are PA and people that want to advertise their own /48 are more likely to just pony up the $100/year to ARIN rather than get stuck in PA renumbering hell when they switch providers.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Tony Hain <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:alh-ietf@tndh.net" target="_blank" class="">alh-ietf@tndh.net</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" class=""><div class="m_2289219881633447079WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Bill,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">To avoid the situation of Owen being a lone voice, I have to echo his point that it is insane that people persist with IPv4-think and extreme conservation. Allocations longer than a /48 to a residence ensure that automated topology configuration can’t happen, because /52’s won’t happen and /56’s are too long for random consumer plug-n-play. Therefore a policy that /48’s must be swiped ensures that we maintain single subnet consumer networks. A policy that says /48’s might be swiped (will in a business and not in a non-residential case) does not reinforce the braindead notion that longer than /48 has some special meaning beyond the need to kill off a generation of those with the ‘addresses are a scarce resource’ mindset. <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class="">Tony<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_2289219881633447079__MailEndCompose" class=""><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri" class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></font></a></p><div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt" class=""><div class=""><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold" class="">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" class=""><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> ARIN-PPML [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@<wbr class="">arin.net</a>] <b class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">On Behalf Of </span></b>William Herrin<br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, July 13, 2017 3:12 PM<br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">To:</span></b> Owen DeLong<br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Cc:</span></b> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight:bold" class="">Subject:</span></b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-5: Equalization of Assignment Registration requirements between IPv4 and IPv6<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></font></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></font></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></font></p><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">Consensus hasn’t yet been reached. I agree that there is significant support for “shorter than /56” actually (not /56 itself). Nonetheless, I don’t believe that shorter than /56 is the ideal place to put the boundary.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></font></p></blockquote><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></font></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">Hi Owen,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></font></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></font></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">I think you're an outlier here. I see consensus that /48 should be swiped and /56 should not. If there's debate that /52 or /49 should also not be swiped or that a some more subtle criteria should determine what's swiped, it's not exactly chewing up bandwidth on the mailing list.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></font></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></font></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">Regards,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></font></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">Bill Herrin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></font></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></font></p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></font></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">-- <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></font></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">William Herrin ................ <a href="mailto:herrin@dirtside.com" target="_blank" class="">herrin@dirtside.com</a> <a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us" target="_blank" class="">bill@herrin.us</a><br class="">Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <<a href="http://www.dirtside.com/" target="_blank" class="">http://www.dirtside.com/</a>><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></font></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
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Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" class="">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">===============================================<br class="">David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu" target="_blank" class="">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br class="">Networking & Telecommunication Services<br class="">Office of Information Technology<br class="">University of Minnesota <br class="">2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815<br class="">Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952<br class="">=============================================== </div>
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