<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I also believe that in some regions within U.S. and its territories there has been a lack of engaging and announcing the opportunities available for Community Networks. During our ARIN on the Roar in San Juan, Puerto Rico we will make it a point to enphasize it.<br><br>Sent from my "iPad Air"<div><br><div>Alfredo Calderón </div><div>Email: <a href="mailto:calderon.alfredo@gmail.com">calderon.alfredo@gmail.com</a></div></div><div>Twylah: <a href="http://www.twylah.com/acalderon52">http://www.twylah.com/acalderon52</a></div><div>Twitter: acalderon52</div><div>Skype: Alfredo_1212</div><div>Business card: <a href="http://myonepage.com/">http://myonepage.com/</a> acalderon</div><div><a href="http://Scoop.it">Scoop.it</a>: <a href="http://www.scoop.it/t/aprendiendo-a-distancia">http://www.scoop.it/t/aprendiendo-a-distancia</a></div><div>Blog: <a href="http://aprendizajedistancia.blogspot.com">http://aprendizajedistancia.blogspot.com</a></div><div>Twitter news: <a href="http://paper.li/">http://paper.li/</a> acalderon52</div></div><div><br>On Jun 13, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Carlton Samuels <<a href="mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com">carlton.samuels@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">For the record, we have been promoting a positive policy and regulatory embrace of community networks in Caribbean jurisdictions for a long while. The context is service disparities occasioned by prohibitive costs.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Those of us in the struggle see community networks as means to overcome the service disparities we see between communities just outside main distribution and at the edge of public networks which become underserved or simply not served because the provisioning is not commercially viable for providers. The economic viability of these networks once established are top of mind and centre of all concerns.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Some jurisdictions - like those in the ECTEL area - have responded with enabling policy and regulatory treatment. In Jamaica we have had a few projects for these networks making use of of 'tv whitespaces' and forbearance in fees from spectrum management authorities. We would wish ARIN to be part of the solution.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">While we have reservations about the criteria for qualification and ARIN fee structure, I support the ARIN 2017-2 policy. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">-Carlton Samuels</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><br>==============================<br><i><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">Carlton A Samuels</font></i><br><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><i>Mobile: 876-818-1799<br><font color="#33CC00">Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround</font></i></font><br>=============================</div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 12:44 PM, Alyssa Moore <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alyssa@alyssamoore.ca" target="_blank">alyssa@alyssamoore.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Hello PPML, </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_-5099549842644557122inbox-inbox-m_-8111289427735847481inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_-5099549842644557122inbox-inbox-m_-8111289427735847481inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">I’d like to spark more discussion on the Removal of Community Networks proposal. </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_-5099549842644557122inbox-inbox-m_-8111289427735847481inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_-5099549842644557122inbox-inbox-m_-8111289427735847481inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Here’s a brief history again (and thanks, Owen, for the first run at it). </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_-5099549842644557122inbox-inbox-m_-8111289427735847481inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_-5099549842644557122inbox-inbox-m_-8111289427735847481inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The policy was first implemented to </span></p><ol style="color:rgb(33,33,33);margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type:lower-alpha;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Encourage uptake of IPv6 in community networks</span></p></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type:lower-alpha;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Reduce the threshold for qualification for community networks on small blocks of IPv6 </span></p></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type:lower-alpha;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Provide some fee relief </span><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_-5099549842644557122inbox-inbox-m_-8111289427735847481inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"><br class="m_-5099549842644557122inbox-inbox-m_-8111289427735847481inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span></p></li></ol><p dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">As Owen noted, the fees at the time were much higher with a minimum commitment of $2500. </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"> </p><p dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The fees now are much more accessible at: </span></p><div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);margin-left:0pt"><table style="border:none;border-collapse:collapse"><colgroup><col width="115"><col width="68"><col width="205"><col width="208"></colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:17.25pt"><td style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt 6pt"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">3X-Small </span><a href="https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html#threex" style="text-decoration-line:none" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;text-decoration-line:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">*</span></a></p></td><td style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt 6pt"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt;text-align:right"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">$250</span></p></td><td style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt 6pt"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">/24 or smaller</span></p></td><td style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt 6pt"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">/40 or smaller</span></p></td></tr><tr style="height:27pt"><td style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt 6pt"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">2X-Small</span></p></td><td style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt 6pt"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt;text-align:right"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">$500</span></p></td><td style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt 6pt"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Larger than /24,</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">up to and including /22</span></p></td><td style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt 6pt"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Larger than /40,</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">up to and including /36</span></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div><p dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"> </p><p dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">At the meeting in New Orleans, we heard from a few folks who are involved in Community Nets. </span><span style="background-color:transparent;font-family:Arial;font-size:11pt;white-space:pre-wrap">At the mic, they expressed concern that: </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_-5099549842644557122inbox-inbox-m_-8111289427735847481inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span></p><ol style="color:rgb(33,33,33);margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type:lower-alpha;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">They didn’t know special provisions existed for Community Nets in the first place but were pleased that such provisions do exist</span></p></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type:lower-alpha;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The definition in 2.11 is too restrictive. None of the self-identified community networks in attendance would have qualified under the definition - notably, the 100% volunteer-run requirement.</span></p></li></ol><p dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_-5099549842644557122inbox-inbox-m_-8111289427735847481inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">In further discussions, I’ve gleaned that the current fees are not a large concern, but that operators of community networks are pleased to be specifically recognized in the policy manual. </span></p><p dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"> </p><p dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">It is my feeling, from this feedback, that any problem here may be more of an engagement and communications issue with community networks than a qualification and fee problem that can be solved in policy. This, admittedly is a challenge for the network operators with limited resources one one end, and for ARIN to be doing outreach on the other. </span></p><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:transparent;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_-5099549842644557122inbox-inbox-m_-8111289427735847481inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:transparent;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Look forward to further discussion. </span><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:transparent;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_-5099549842644557122inbox-inbox-m_-8111289427735847481inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:transparent;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br class="m_-5099549842644557122inbox-inbox-m_-8111289427735847481inbox-inbox-kix-line-break"></span><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:transparent;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Alyssa </span><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 11:31 AM Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
> On Mar 21, 2017, at 12:07 , Jason Schiller <<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank">jschiller@google.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I would offer a friendly amendment to Scott's request to open the<br>
> question up more generally... (we should not confuse if a policy<br>
> is being used, with if it is needed).<br>
><br>
> Can "Community Networks" please chime into this thread<br>
> and explain one (or all) of the following:<br>
><br>
> 1. Why are you (or other communities networks in general)<br>
> having or had trouble getting resources?<br>
<br>
This section was put in place to attempt to provide a mechanism by which community networks could gain access<br>
to IPv6 resources for the following reasons:<br>
<br>
1. Encourage the use of IPv6 by community networks.<br>
2. Provide an avenue by which the board could provide a reduced fee structure for community networks.<br>
(The board has, so far, elected not to do so)<br>
3. Lower the barrier to qualification for relatively small blocks of IPv6 address space for operators<br>
of community networks.<br>
<br>
At the time the policy was introduced into the NRPM, the barrier to entry for a community network (which would be<br>
treated as an ISP) was a minimum commitment of $2,500 per year (IIRC, possibly even $5,000).<br>
<br>
Many community networks struggle to fund pizza for a monthly meeting.<br>
<br>
Several representatives of community networks, myself included, approached the board and were told that “The board<br>
would need a definition of community networks in policy before it could provide any fee relief to such organizations.”<br>
<br>
The policy half was put in place and then the board declined to provide any of the requested fee relief. Since then,<br>
several changes (reductions) in fees have occurred.<br>
<br>
Today, fees are likely no longer a significant barrier to community networks use of this policy. However, that is a<br>
very recent event and I would like to see us give community networks some time to determine whether this is a useful<br>
avenue or not.<br>
<br>
Further, since this is an IPv6-only policy, it may well be that most community networks still don’t perceive it as<br>
practical to implement an IPv6 based network and so aren’t ready to take advantage of the policy yet, preferring instead<br>
to focus on whatever mechanism they are using to deal with IPv4.<br>
<br>
> 2. Is the current policy is sufficient for you<br>
> (and other community networks like you)<br>
> to get space without sections 2.11 and 6.5.9?<br>
<br>
From the perspective of the community networks I’ve been actively involved in, it’s a mixed bag. There are still<br>
advantages to preserving these sections in some instances.<br>
<br>
<br>
> 3. Do you (and others like you) believe they should<br>
> qualify under "Community Networks" but do not because<br>
> the definition is overly narrow?<br>
> [explain how we might extend the definition to cover you]<br>
<br>
From the perspective of the community networks I’ve been actively involved in, policy was not the problem,<br>
cost was the problem. The policy as is is helpful, but was not helpful enough. Recent general changes to<br>
the fee structure would now make taking advantage of the policy economically viable to some of these<br>
networks.<br>
<br>
> 4. Did you get space under a different policy,<br>
> but still believe you would have been better served<br>
> if you were able to fit under the "Communities Networks"<br>
> definition?<br>
<br>
From the perspective of the community networks I’ve been actively involved in, no. Economics being the<br>
primary barrier, no other policy would work, either. Yes, we would have been better served under the<br>
community networks definition _IF_ such service had been economically viable, but that was not the<br>
case until recent changes.<br>
<br>
> Please note if you think you should be considered a community network,<br>
<br>
> and why. (e.g. I am Your Neighborhood Net. We should be considered a<br>
> community network because we offer "free" WiFi to our community. We<br>
> hold monthly meetings that cost $10 / person, but half of that covers the<br>
> price of the pizza, the rest is a donation for our ISP fees and replacement<br>
> equipment. Occasionally, a community member will buy and donate an<br>
> access point so they can get better coverage, or speed. Neither<br>
> Your Neighborhood Net, nor people associated with it make any money)<br>
<br>
All of the community networks I’ve been involved in had no cost to attend their monthly meetings,<br>
provided free wifi to some service community, depended on donations from local ISPs or other businesses<br>
(service donations) for connectivity, and if there was pizza at the meeting, it was funded by everyone<br>
chipping in for the pizza. The equipment was generally donated and/or purchased with donations from<br>
individual organizers/volunteers involved in the community network. Space and power for the equipment<br>
was donated by individuals, companies, and in some cases, civic entities (water districts, police,<br>
EMA, etc.).<br>
<br>
Many of these networks were/are operated by Amateur Radio operators and often had some connection and/or<br>
intent to provide services for ARES/RACES and/or local emergency management authorities.<br>
<br>
> Please ask any community networks you know to chime in on this thread!<br>
<br>
Though I am no longer directly actively involved in any of these networks, I hope that the above<br>
historical and current information is useful to the discussion.<br>
<br>
Owen<br>
<br>
<br>
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Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.</blockquote></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Alyssa Moore<br><a href="tel:(403)%20437-0601" value="+14034370601" target="_blank">403.437.0601</a><br></div></div>
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</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>PPML</span><br><span>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to</span><br><span>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).</span><br><span>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:</span><br><span><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a></span><br><span>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.</span></div></blockquote></body></html>