<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Kevin,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For C, no, they wouldn’t need to show 80% utilization of the /18, they need to again show 80% overall when they came back.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Basically it introduces a 6 month sliding window allowing a total of up to a /16 transferred under this policy during any preceding 6 months.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">However, there are other flaws with your scenario.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As I understand the proposal, you’re able to transfer up to your current size (max /16), so if they hold a /19, they can only transfer another /19 bringing their total holdings to /18 equivalent. Let’s call that T+0 months.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">At T+2 months, they’ve again achieved 80% utilization overall and come back for a /18. They now hold a /17 equivalent total.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">At T+4 months, they apply again and are able to transfer another /17 bringing their total holdings to /16.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Growth accelerates and now they come back at T+5 months. They can’t transfer another /16 because within the preceding 6 months, they’ve already transferred a /17+/18/+19.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">All they would be able to transfer at T+5 months would be a /19 because that would complete a /16 worth of transfers in the preceding 6 months.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">A month later, they could (potentially) transfer another /19 and 2 months later, they could potentially transfer another /18.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 10, 2017, at 09:56 , Scott Leibrand <<a href="mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com" class="">scottleibrand@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Kevin,<div class=""><br class="">I think that is correct, although I'm not sure they'd have to show 80% of the new /18, just meet the overall usage threshold. Depends on the exact language we use, of course.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">What's your preference between A, C, and D?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-Scott</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Kevin Blumberg <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:kevinb@thewire.ca" target="_blank" class="">kevinb@thewire.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-CA" link="blue" vlink="purple" class="">
<div class="m_-6052843166265699830WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_-6052843166265699830__MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">Jason,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></a></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">In regards to A that would be the presumed assumption of the existing text correct?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">I’m not comfortable with B.
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">In regards to C the intent would be to allow someone who has a /19 to get a /18 and then as an example
three months later come back for a /17 once they have shown 80 percent of the /18?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">There is another option.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">D) you can use this policy once every 3 months<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">Thanks,<br class="">
<br class="">
Kevin Blumberg<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></span></p>
<span class=""></span><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""> ARIN-PPML [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@<wbr class="">arin.net</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Jason Schiller<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 7, 2017 2:54 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Scott Leibrand <<a href="mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">scottleibrand@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> ARIN-PPML List <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] 2016-3 Revisited - anti-abuse clause<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><div class=""><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">We have a few options on the table and only a few voices in the discussion...<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">I'd like to quickly outline the options, and see if we can get more people to weigh in and either note they object to one or more options, are ambivalent to one or more options, or support one or more options (with some preference).<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">1. demonstrate 80% utilization on average for all your IP space<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">2. get pre-authorization for 1 or more transfers up to double your current holdings over then two years<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">2.1. this is limited to a /16<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">A. you can use this policy once every 6 months<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">B. If you need to use this policy more than once every 6 months you need to also demonstrate growth equalling half what you have transferred since you last used this policy.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">C. you can use this policy to transfer a total of up to a /16<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Where do you stand on A, B or C?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">__Jason<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Scott Leibrand <<a href="mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">scottleibrand@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in" class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">That would be a significant improvement on the current ("An organization may only qualify under 8.5.7 once every 6 months.") text. I would be equally fine with this text ("N<span style="font-size:9.5pt" class="">o more than a total of a /16 equivalent
may be transferred under these provisions within any 6 month period." or similar) or with Jason's ("<span style="color:#500050" class="">An organization may only qualify under 8.5.7 once every 6 months, unless they can also demonstrate growth of IPv4 utilization of
at least half of the amount of specified transfers since the previous transfer pre-authorization or approval.")</span></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:#500050" class="">Thanks,</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;color:#500050" class="">Scott</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 2:22 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Simple to resolve for the 6-month horizon —<br class="">
<br class="">
… Such that no more than a total of a /16 equivalent may be transferred under these provisions within any 6 month period. …<br class="">
<span style="color:#888888" class=""><br class="">
<span class="m_-6052843166265699830m-5598678503246233445hoenzb">Owen</span></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
> On Feb 3, 2017, at 07:19 , David R Huberman <<a href="mailto:daveid@panix.com" target="_blank" class="">daveid@panix.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> I thought of a possible problem with the anti-abuse language -- all versions of it. Let me talk it out.<br class="">
><br class="">
> An organization has a /19.<br class="">
> It has growing products, and wants another /19 for its 1 or 2 year need.<br class="">
> It wants to avail itself of the new language.<br class="">
> It is able to buy a /20 from Buyer A, and a /20 from Buyer B.<br class="">
><br class="">
> It closes the deal with Buyer A first, and transfers at ARIN using the proposed language.<br class="">
><br class="">
> How does it use any version we've discussed (Jason's various proposals, the current text, etc) to transfer the space it buys from Buyer B?<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
> (In all discussion, yes, you can always use the other sections of 8.5, but let's stick to the spirit of this policy language, which is meant to help smaller and mid-size networks double their holdings without needs testing.)<br class="">
> ______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
> PPML<br class="">
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class="">
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> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" class="">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br class="">
<br class="">
______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
PPML<br class="">
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">
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Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class="">
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Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" class="">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">
PPML<br class="">
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class="">
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Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" class="">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
<br clear="all" class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal">-- <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:#555555" class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________________</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">Jason Schiller|NetOps|<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank" class="">jschiller@<wbr class="">google.com</a>|<a href="tel:(571)%20266-0006" value="+15712660006" target="_blank" class="">571-266-0006</a></span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br class=""></div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">PPML<br class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class=""><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" class="">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">Please contact info@arin.net if you experience any issues.</div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>