<p dir="ltr">I oppose the policy as written.</p>
<p dir="ltr">I have to agree with Owen on this one...In that it does not sound like palatable solution to the problem aired.<br>
Although, a change to 'may be sent' is similar to 'will not be sent'.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Is there some other annual event which can be used to impose POC update at the same time (??)<br>
rd</p>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 19, 2017 4:39 PM, <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
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<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2016-8: Removal of Indirect POC<br>
Validation Requirement (Chris Woodfield)<br>
2. ARIN Response to AFRINIC on Policy compatibility (ARIN)<br>
3. Weekly posting summary for <a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net">ppml@arin.net</a> (<a href="mailto:narten@us.ibm.com">narten@us.ibm.com</a>)<br>
4. Re: Draft Policy 2016-7 -- Integrate community networks into<br>
Existing ISP Policy (David Farmer)<br>
5. Re: ARIN Response to AFRINIC on Policy compatibility<br>
(David R Huberman)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2017 09:58:12 -0800<br>
From: Chris Woodfield <<a href="mailto:chris@semihuman.com">chris@semihuman.com</a>><br>
To: ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a>>, <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2016-8: Removal of Indirect<br>
POC Validation Requirement<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:44BCDCD7-5449-443B-9F97-C57B871161F2@semihuman.com">44BCDCD7-5449-443B-9F97-<wbr>C57B871161F2@semihuman.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br>
<br>
Is the presence of the phrase ?will be sent? in the current policy intended to set a requirement for the POC (this email will be sent annually, you must reply to it in order to validate the record), or intended as a requirement for ARIN staff (ARIN is required to send the email annually)?<br>
<br>
To the concept of the random audit approach mentioned earlier, It may be simple enough to change ?will be sent? to ?may be sent?. I?d argue that procedurally the sampling rate should be fairly high, however (i.e. no less than, say, 20% of records).<br>
<br>
-C<br>
<br>
> On Jan 5, 2017, at 12:46 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I oppose the policy as written.<br>
><br>
> While I agree that the validation of indirect POCs by ARIN has become a problem, I believe that this is the exact opposite of a good solution.<br>
><br>
> Indeed, my organization has a significant problem with vendors creating indirect POC records pointing to individuals within my organization who are not good POCs for the space in question rather than using our existing POC handles which we have provided to those vendors.<br>
><br>
> The current POC validation process is one of the few checks and balances which allows us to catch and address these issues.<br>
><br>
<br>
P.S. Personally, I?d argue that a viable alternate strategy in the absence of that check/balance would be to make sure that the requirement to use your official POCs is written into your vendor contracts at next renewal, and operationally onto a service acceptance checklist backed up by said contract language.<br>
<br>
> Ideally, we would like to have a way for ARIN to flag and validate new POCs pointed at our organization _BEFORE_ they are actually placed into the database or attached to resources.<br>
><br>
> Owen<br>
><br>
>> On Dec 20, 2016, at 10:09 , ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On 15 December 2016, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) advanced the following Proposal to Draft Policy status:<br>
>><br>
>> ARIN-prop-233: Removal of Indirect POC Validation Requirement<br>
>><br>
>> This Draft Policy has been numbered and titled:<br>
>><br>
>> Draft Policy ARIN-2016-8: Removal of Indirect POC Validation Requirement<br>
>><br>
>> Draft Policy text is below and can be found at:<br>
>> <a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2016_8.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/policy/<wbr>proposals/2016_8.html</a><br>
>><br>
>> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of this draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet Number Resource Policy as stated in the Policy Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles are:<br>
>><br>
>>> Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration<br>
>>> Technically Sound<br>
>>> Supported by the Community<br>
>><br>
>> The PDP can be found at:<br>
>> <a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/policy/<wbr>pdp.html</a><br>
>><br>
>> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:<br>
>> <a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/policy/<wbr>proposals/index.html</a><br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>><br>
>> Sean Hopkins<br>
>> Policy Analyst<br>
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)<br>
>><br>
>> ##########<br>
>><br>
>> ARIN-2016-8: Removal of Indirect POC Validation Requirement<br>
>><br>
>> Problem Statement:<br>
>><br>
>> There are over 600,000 POCs registered in Whois that are only associated with indirect assignments (reassignments) and indirect allocations (reallocations). NRPM 3.6 requires ARIN to contact all 600,000+ of these every year to validate the POC information. This is problematic for a few reasons:<br>
>><br>
>> 1) ARIN does not have a business relationships with these POCs. By conducting POC validation via email, ARIN is sending Unsolicited Commercial Emails. Further, because of NRPM 3.6.1, ARIN cannot offer an opt-out mechanism. Finally, ARIN's resultant listing on anti-spam lists causes unacceptable damage to ARIN's ability to conduct ordinary business over email<br>
>><br>
>> 2) ARIN has previously reported that POC validation to reassignments causes tremendous work for the staff. It receives many angry phone calls and emails about the POC validation process. I believe the ARIN staff should be focused on POC validation efforts for directly issued resources, as that has more value to internet operations and law enforcement than end-user POC information.<br>
>><br>
>> Policy statement:<br>
>><br>
>> Replace the first sentence of 3.6.1:<br>
>><br>
>> "During ARIN's annual Whois POC validation, an email will be sent to every POC in the Whois database."<br>
>><br>
>> with<br>
>><br>
>> "During ARIN's annual Whois POC validation, an email will be sent to every POC that is a contact for a direct assignment, direct allocation, reallocation, and AS number, and their associated OrgIDs."<br>
>><br>
>> Timetable for implementation: Immediate<br>
>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>> PPML<br>
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
>> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:17:18 -0500<br>
From: ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: [arin-ppml] ARIN Response to AFRINIC on Policy compatibility<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:ea90a56c-21f5-47d8-f6ad-9500a9f78248@arin.net">ea90a56c-21f5-47d8-f6ad-<wbr>9500a9f78248@arin.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
To PPML -<br>
<br>
As a result of policy discussions in the AFRINIC region, ARIN is<br>
providing the following to information:<br>
<br>
On 30 September 2016 ARIN received a query from AFRINIC requesting an<br>
assessment on the compatibility of AFRINIC proposed<br>
1803-inbound-transfer-policy with ARIN policy. On 6 October 2016 ARIN<br>
responded with the following assessment:<br>
<br>
Based on ARIN?s Number Resource Policy Manual, Version 2016.2 ? 13 July<br>
2016, and referencing the following text from paragraph 8.4. Inter-RIR<br>
Transfers to Specified Recipients, we have determined that the proposed<br>
AFRINIC Inbound Transfer Policy is not reciprocal.<br>
<br>
?Inter-regional transfers may take place only via RIRs who agree to the<br>
transfer and share reciprocal, compatible, needs-based policies.?<br>
<br>
In this case reciprocal meaning that the policy provides both RIRs the<br>
same ability to transfer: both in and out. This policy proposal as<br>
written could not be implemented by ARIN. Note that ARIN?s Inter-RIR<br>
transfer policy is based on other RIR's transfer policy and does not<br>
consider any LIR or NIR policies.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
John Sweeting<br>
Sr. Director, RSD<br>
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 00:53:23 -0500<br>
From: <a href="mailto:narten@us.ibm.com">narten@us.ibm.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: [arin-ppml] Weekly posting summary for <a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net">ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:201701130553.v0D5rN8s018352@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com">201701130553.v0D5rN8s018352@<wbr>rotala.raleigh.ibm.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
Total of 4 messages in the last 7 days.<br>
<br>
script run at: Fri Jan 13 00:53:18 EST 2017<br>
<br>
Messages | Bytes | Who<br>
--------+------+--------+-----<wbr>-----+------------------------<br>
25.00% | 1 | 33.84% | 11000 | <a href="mailto:chris@semihuman.com">chris@semihuman.com</a><br>
25.00% | 1 | 26.19% | 8514 | <a href="mailto:narten@us.ibm.com">narten@us.ibm.com</a><br>
25.00% | 1 | 20.31% | 6603 | <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a><br>
25.00% | 1 | 19.66% | 6391 | <a href="mailto:ppml@rsuc.gweep.net">ppml@rsuc.gweep.net</a><br>
--------+------+--------+-----<wbr>-----+------------------------<br>
100.00% | 4 |100.00% | 32508 | Total<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 13:42:11 -0600<br>
From: David Farmer <<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu">farmer@umn.edu</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy 2016-7 -- Integrate community<br>
networks into Existing ISP Policy<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAN-Dau0kCCNxDvCTZgwudnzLN3Yt2o-xu6gMYcb0Dc5igWRU5Q@mail.gmail.com">CAN-<wbr>Dau0kCCNxDvCTZgwudnzLN3Yt2o-<wbr>xu6gMYcb0Dc5igWRU5Q@mail.<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
It concerns me that no one that operates a community network has commented<br>
on this policy. Further it concerns me that no one from the general ARIN<br>
policy community commented either, only AC members and a former AC member<br>
who is also the policy author have made any comments.<br>
<br>
Is there interest from the ARIN policy community to work on this or are<br>
their other priorities for the community's time?<br>
<br>
It would be helpful to hear from others in regards to if this is something<br>
we should be working on or not.<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Andrew Dul <<a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net">andrew.dul@quark.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> It would be especially helpful for the AC if those who operate community<br>
> networks could review the proposed draft policy and see if the problem<br>
> statement highlights an issue for operators and if the proposed text solves<br>
> this problem.<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
> Andrew<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 12/15/2016 3:30 PM, Kevin Blumberg wrote:<br>
><br>
> Owen,<br>
><br>
> As the author of 2016-7 I disagree.<br>
><br>
> The change in 2016-6 had no meaningful impact to the usefulness of Community<br>
> Networks. T<br>
><br>
> The purpose of 2016-7 was to significantly reduce the red tape requirements<br>
> with Community Networks.<br>
><br>
> I believe that without this kind of policy Community Network's will never<br>
> get used given the onerous requirements.<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Kevin Blumberg<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: ARIN-PPML [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@<wbr>arin.net</a> <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>>] On Behalf Of Owen DeLong<br>
> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 4:19 PM<br>
> To: ARIN-PPML List <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>> <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
> Subject: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy 2016-7 -- Integrate community networks<br>
> into Existing ISP Policy<br>
><br>
> I believe that this proposal no longer has relevance given the advancement<br>
> of 2016-6 and its rewrite of the community networks policy to the board.<br>
><br>
> If anyone feels that the AC should not abandon this proposal at their<br>
> January meeting, please speak up.<br>
><br>
> Owen<br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public<br>
> Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
==============================<wbr>=================<br>
David Farmer <a href="mailto:Email%3Afarmer@umn.edu">Email:farmer@umn.edu</a><br>
Networking & Telecommunication Services<br>
Office of Information Technology<br>
University of Minnesota<br>
2218 University Ave SE Phone: <a href="tel:612-626-0815" value="+16126260815">612-626-0815</a><br>
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: <a href="tel:612-812-9952" value="+16128129952">612-812-9952</a><br>
==============================<wbr>=================<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 15:36:54 -0500 (EST)<br>
From: David R Huberman <<a href="mailto:daveid@panix.com">daveid@panix.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN Response to AFRINIC on Policy<br>
compatibility<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:Pine.NEB.4.64.1701191530420.25224@panix1.panix.com">Pine.NEB.4.64.1701191530420.<wbr>25224@panix1.panix.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-unknown"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
<br>
Last week, ARIN staff sent to this list a copy of their response to<br>
AFRINIC on inter-RIR transfer policy compatability.<br>
<br>
The AFRINIC community is considering a one-way transfer policy as a<br>
bootstrap for the few years until they reach IPv4 runout, at which point<br>
it would aim to become two-way.<br>
<br>
I feel like as a member of the internet community, that ARIN (we - us -<br>
the PPML participants) should be accepting that an RIR in a different<br>
region has different needs than we do. I think we should allow African<br>
internet operators to obtain blocks from sellers in the ARIN region, and<br>
transfer them to AFRINIC to meet their needs.<br>
<br>
The AFRINIC inbound transfer policy is very ARIN-like. It's needs-basis,<br>
and the language looks very similar to 8.2 and 8.3 language we've had at<br>
ARIN for a very long time.<br>
<br>
cf.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.afrinic.net/en/community/policy-development/policy-proposals/1803-inbound-transfer-policy" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.afrinic.net/en/<wbr>community/policy-development/<wbr>policy-proposals/1803-inbound-<wbr>transfer-policy</a><br>
<br>
That's my opinion. What's yours?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, 12 Jan 2017, ARIN wrote:<br>
<br>
> To PPML -<br>
><br>
> As a result of policy discussions in the AFRINIC region, ARIN is<br>
> providing the following to information:<br>
><br>
> On 30 September 2016 ARIN received a query from AFRINIC requesting an<br>
> assessment on the compatibility of AFRINIC proposed<br>
> 1803-inbound-transfer-policy with ARIN policy. On 6 October 2016 ARIN<br>
> responded with the following assessment:<br>
><br>
> Based on ARIN???s Number Resource Policy Manual, Version 2016.2 ??? 13 July<br>
> 2016, and referencing the following text from paragraph 8.4. Inter-RIR<br>
> Transfers to Specified Recipients, we have determined that the proposed<br>
> AFRINIC Inbound Transfer Policy is not reciprocal.<br>
><br>
> ???Inter-regional transfers may take place only via RIRs who agree to the<br>
> transfer and share reciprocal, compatible, needs-based policies.???<br>
><br>
> In this case reciprocal meaning that the policy provides both RIRs the<br>
> same ability to transfer: both in and out. This policy proposal as<br>
> written could not be implemented by ARIN. Note that ARIN???s Inter-RIR<br>
> transfer policy is based on other RIR's transfer policy and does not<br>
> consider any LIR or NIR policies.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
> John Sweeting<br>
> Sr. Director, RSD<br>
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
ARIN-PPML mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a><br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 139, Issue 2<br>
******************************<wbr>***********<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>