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<p>Operators generally want to do the right thing. But at the same time, there's no real leverage over a paying customer who is breaking no laws and just never paid ARIN's bills and has out-of-date contact info. You can tell them to go talk to ARIN. But
you can't disco them or turn off your BGP session. So whether it's an unregistered ASN or an ASN clearly marked "BAD! NO!", we generally find the ISP is unproductively stuck in the middle.</p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net <arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net> on behalf of Mike Hammett <arin@ics-il.net><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 4, 2016 9:53 PM<br>
<b>Cc:</b> arin-ppml@arin.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] 2-byte ASN policy</font>
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Would operators take hijacking an ASN issued to someone more seriously than squatting on an ASN issued to no one?<br>
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I'd assume no one cares about the risk to the squatter.<br>
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<div><span name="x"></span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:medium; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:1; word-spacing:0px">
<br style="color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:medium; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:1; word-spacing:0px">
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:medium; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:1; word-spacing:0px; display:inline!important; float:none">-----</span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:medium; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:1; word-spacing:0px">
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Hammett</span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:medium; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:1; word-spacing:0px">
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Computing Solutions</span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:medium; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:1; word-spacing:0px">
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<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:medium; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:1; word-spacing:0px; display:inline!important; float:none">Midwest
Internet Exchange</span><br style="color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:medium; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:1; word-spacing:0px">
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<a href="https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix" style="font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:medium; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:1; word-spacing:0px"><img style="border: 0pt none; -webkit-user-select: none;" src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png"></a><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange" style="font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:medium; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:1; word-spacing:0px"><img style="border: 0pt none; -webkit-user-select: none;" src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png"></a><a href="https://twitter.com/mdwestix" style="font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:medium; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:1; word-spacing:0px"><img style="border: 0pt none; -webkit-user-select: none;" src="http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png"></a><span name="x"></span><br>
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<b>From: </b>"David Huberman" <David_Huberman@outlook.com><br>
<b>To: </b>arin-ppml@arin.net<br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, April 4, 2016 3:56:34 PM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [arin-ppml] 2-byte ASN policy<br>
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<p>Chris's excellent question jogs my brain to ask a related-but-different question:</p>
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<p>ARIN has traditionally had a large number of AS numbers (almost all 2-byte) in the "hold" bucket. These are ASNs which have been revoked for years due to non-payment and separation from the RSA. But they're still found in the DFZ. </p>
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<p>Can't ARIN ask requestors who say they need 2-bytes if they'd be willing to accept a 2-byte ASN that may have route announcements present in the DFZ, and due to circumstances blah blah blah? It boils down to "we have 2-byte ASNs, but they're not quite as
clean as one might expect - is that ok?", because I'm pretty sure the answer will always be "HECK YEAH!" <span style="font-size:12pt">ASNs aren't quite like IP addresses in this context. There's no conflict I know of unless the new registrants tries to
directly exchange routes with the old registrant, which is mathematically highly improbable.</span></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net <arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net> on behalf of Chris Woodfield <chris@semihuman.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 4, 2016 4:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Adam Thompson<br>
<b>Cc:</b> arin-ppml@arin.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] 2-byte ASN policy</font>
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<div class="">Do we have information on how many 2-byte ASNs get returned, compared to the rate of requests for them? Is there a surplus? </div>
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<div class="">On Apr 3, 2016, at 11:36 AM, Adam Thompson <<a href="mailto:athompso@athompso.net" class="" target="_blank">athompso@athompso.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">IMO, 2-byte ASNs should simply be retired and not reallocated. "Solving the technical problem", as described in your email, is actually ensuring the perpetuation of a different technical problem.<br class="">
It's the same sort of thing as the IPv4 vs IPv6 --transition, but this time ARIN has an opportunity to at least avoid being part of the problem, even if it can't really be part of the "solution".<br class="">
Let's please not prolong this problem, too... even in central Canada, known for a paucity of upstream carriers, it's now commercially feasible to work around the 2-byte technical limitations.<br class="">
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-Adam<br class="">
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<div class="gmail_quote">On April 3, 2016 12:59:37 PM CDT, Andrew Dul <<a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net" class="" target="_blank">andrew.dul@quark.net</a>> wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<pre class="k9mail">Hello,<br class=""><br class="">I am starting a new thread in PPML, as a follow up to the ARIN <br class="">suggestion and consultation which recently started regarding creating a <br class="">2-byte ASN waiting list.<br class=""><br class="">The original suggestion is here:<br class=""><br class=""><a href="https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2016-04.html" class="" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/participate/acsp/suggestions/2016-04.html</a><br class=""><br class="">ARIN opened a consultation on this suggestion on the arin-consult <br class="">mailing-list. This thread starts here for those who are not subscribed <br class="">to arin-consult.<br class=""><br class=""><a href="http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-consult/2016-March/000713.html" class="" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-consult/2016-March/000713.html</a><br class=""><br class=""><a href="http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-consult/2016-April/000722.html" class="" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-consult/2016-April/000722.html</a><br class=""><br class="">As the thread evolved it has been suggested that this issue should be <br class="">resolved via the policy development process rather than through a <br class="">suggestion.<br class=""><br class="">There are a number of questions that have been raised by this thread. I <br class="">am copying them here to continue the discussion on PPML.<br class=""><br class="">===<br class=""><br class="">Working problem statement: ARIN will receive 2-byte ASNs as returns <br class="">over time, and these ASNs have perceived or additional value to<br class="">organizations compared to 4-byte ASNs. How should ARIN allocate these <br class="">2-byte ASNs?<br class=""><br class="">===<br class=""><br class="">Should they be given to the next requester, regardless of technical need <br class="">for a 2-byte ASN? (What are the technical qualifications we should use <br class="">if there is a specific technical need? e.g. provides transit to more <br class="">than 1 ASN?)<br class=""><br class="">If there is really a technical need for 2-byte ASNs, shouldn't we <br class="">attempt to build an inventory of 2-byte ASNs?<br class=""><br class="">Should returns be held in reserve?<br class=""><br class="">Should ARIN hold them for some period of
time
before reallocating them?<br class=""><br class="">Should they be put up for auction to qualified organizations?<br class=""><br class="">Should they be given to the 1st organization on a wait-list for 2-byte <br class="">ASNs?<br class=""><br class="">Would an organization looking for a 2-byte ASN have the option to <br class="">receive a 4-byte ASN in the interim? If they did would they have to <br class="">return it?<br class=""><br class="">Should the waiting list be closed to organizations that already have a <br class="">2-byte ASNs?<br class=""><br class="">I and the AC would appreciate your comments on these questions so that <br class="">we can start to build a draft policy that best matches with what the <br class="">community would like to see implemented by ARIN.<br class=""><br class="">Thanks,<br class="">Andrew<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><hr class=""><br class="">PPML<br class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" class="" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class=""><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" class="" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" class="" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br class=""></pre>
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-- <br class="">
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.</div>
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