<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} --></style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Really. Am I going to have to be the first to point out the irony of Google employees complaining that companies with "deep pockets" and "the most profitable services" will dominate the address market if we make minor relaxations of need assessments? </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>What's wrong with this picture? Think, folks. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Isn't it obvious that companies like Google are in a very good position to get the addresses they want - via less than transparent market mechanisms such as options contracts and acquisitions? And isn't it possible that they might be trying to prevent smaller
companies from participating in the market by throwing up artificial barriers? </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">All this talk of "fairness" overlooks the fact that it's more fair to have simple, transparent bidding and less bureaucracy. Smaller bidders can easily afford smaller chunks of numbers, and they benefit from the reduced administrative
burden and delays associated with pointless and restrictive needs assessments. When I hear smaller ISPs who need addresses making Jason's arguments, I might take them seriously. Until then, no. </span><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>--MM</p>
<p><b style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br>
</b></p>
<p><b style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net <arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net> on behalf of Jason Schiller <jschiller@google.com></span></p>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 18, 2016 3:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Vaughn Thurman - Swift Systems<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ARIN PPML<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9: Eliminating needs-based evaluation for Section 8.2 and 8.3 transfers of IPv4 netblocks</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">+1 to what MCTim, Owen, and Vaughn said.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In general I oppose transfers with no need.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>If there are "networks in need of additional IPv4 addresses", surely they should be able to show this, in accord with long standing practice. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd rather us not move to a situation which enables/encourages speculation and profit taking (or rent-seeking if you will) in re: IP resource distribution.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd also rather not encourage one competitor in a business segment to be able to better stockpile addresses and for that to become a competitive advantage</div>
<div>against other providers in the space. Additionally if this is done in a wide enough scale it can sufficiently lengthen wide spread IPv6 adoption.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This policy would also allow for companies with the deepest pockets and the most profitable services to concentrate IPv4 space. I'm not sure that is more "fair" </div>
<div>than the pre-existing framework for "fair".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>__Jason</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Vaughn Thurman - Swift Systems
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vaughn@swiftsystems.com" target="_blank">vaughn@swiftsystems.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>+1<br>
<br>
Sent from my mobile device, please forgive brevity and typos. </div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div><br>
On Feb 18, 2016, at 2:16 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>+1 — McTim said it very well.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Owen</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Feb 18, 2016, at 10:34 , McTim <<a href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com" target="_blank">dogwallah@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">I am opposed.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If there are "<span style="font-size:12.8px">networks in need of additional IPv4 addresses", surely they should be able to show this, in accord with long standing practice. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">I'd rather us not move to a situation which enables/encourages speculation and profit taking (or rent-seeking if you will) in re: IP resource distribution.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Regards,</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">McTim</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Leif Sawyer <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:lsawyer@gci.com" target="_blank">lsawyer@gci.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
Good afternoon -<br>
<br>
Based on feedback from Montreal as well as internal discussions, I've reworked this policy.<br>
AC members and ARIN staff are looking for additional feedback, as well as your position in terms<br>
of supporting or opposing this draft policy.<br>
<br>
We'll be discussing this policy, as well as any feedback provided on this week's AC teleconference,<br>
so I'm very appreciative of your input.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Leif Sawyer<br>
Shepherd - ARIN-2015-9<br>
<br>
NRPM section 8: <a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#eight" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#eight</a><br>
<br>
Most current draft policy text follows:<br>
--<br>
<br>
Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9<br>
Eliminating needs-based evaluation for Section 8.2 and 8.3 transfers of IPv4 netblocks<br>
Original Date: 23 September 2015<br>
Updated: 16 February, 2016<br>
<br>
Problem statement:<br>
The current needs-based evaluation language in NRPM sections 8.2 and 8.3, regarding transfer of IPv4<br>
netblocks from one organization to another, may cause a recipient organization to bypass the ARIN<br>
registry entirely in order to secure the needed IPv4 netblocks in a more timely fashion directly from the<br>
current holder. The result is that the data visible in ARIN registry may become more inaccurate over<br>
time.<br>
<br>
Policy statement:<br>
This proposal eliminates all needs-based evaluation language for sections 8.2 and 8.3, allowing<br>
transfers to be reflected in the database as they occur following an agreement of transfer from the<br>
resource provider to the recipient.<br>
<br>
Section 8.1 Principles:<br>
- Strike the fragment from the 3rd paragraph which reads<br>
", based on justified need, "<br>
so the resulting text reads<br>
"Number resources are issued to organizations, not to individuals representing those organizations."<br>
Section 8.2 Mergers and Acquisitions:<br>
- Change the 4th bullet from:<br>
"The resources to be transferred will be subject to ARIN policies."<br>
to:<br>
"The resources to be transferred will be subject to ARIN policies, excluding any policies related to needs-based justification."<br>
<br>
- Strike the final paragraph which begins "In the event that number resources of the combined organizations are no longer justified under ARIN policy ..."<br>
<br>
Section 8.3 Transfers between Specified Recipients within the ARIN Region:<br>
- Change the first bullet under "Conditions on recipient of the transfer" from:<br>
"The recipient must demonstrate the need for up to a 24-month supply of IP address resources under current ARIN policies and sign an RSA."<br>
to:<br>
"The recipient must sign an RSA."<br>
<br>
- Change the 2nd bullet under "Conditions on recipient of the transfer" from:<br>
"The resources to be transferred will be subject to ARIN policies."<br>
to:<br>
"The resources to be transferred will be subject to ARIN policies, excluding any policies related to needs-based justification."<br>
<br>
Comments:<br>
a. Timetable for implementation: Immediate<br>
b. Anything else<br>
As the "free pool" for 4 of the 5 world's RIR's (APNIC, RIPE, LACNIC, and ARIN) have now been<br>
exhausted, networks in need of additional IPv4 addresses have shifted away from the practice of<br>
receiving them from the RIR's resource pool. Instead, networks in need are seeking out current holders<br>
of IPv4 resources who are willing to transfer them in order to fulfill that need. Accordingly, the RIR's<br>
primary responsibility vis-à-vis IPv4 netblock governance has shifted from "allocation" to ensuring an<br>
accurate registry database.<br>
<br>
The RIPE registry can be used as a reference of one which has evolved over the past couple years to<br>
shift their focus away from conservation/allocation and towards database accuracy. IPv4 netblock<br>
transfers within that RIR consist merely of validating authenticity of the parties requesting a transfer.<br>
Provided the organizations meet the basic requirement of RIR membership, and that the transferring<br>
organization has the valid authority to request the transfer, the transaction completes without any<br>
"needs-based" review.<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PPML<br>
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
<a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>Cheers,<br>
<br>
McTim<br>
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
PPML<br>
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
<a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>PPML</span><br>
<span>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to</span><br>
<span>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).</span><br>
<span>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:</span><br>
<span><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a></span><br>
<span>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PPML<br>
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
<a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature"><font color="#555555" face="'courier new', monospace">
<div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:arial"><font color="#555555" face="'courier new', monospace">_______________________________________________________<br>
</font>
<div><font face="'courier new', monospace">Jason Schiller|NetOps|<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank">jschiller@google.com</a>|571-266-0006</font></div>
<div><font face="'courier new', monospace"><br>
</font></div>
</span></div>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>