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I would think that ARIN staff would already apply a "show me
tangible evidence requirement" to a 50% within a year requirement.
<br>
<br>
My understanding is that that is current ARIN staff practice for new
organizations requires them to show evidence they will actually use
the IPv4 addresses on an operational network. I don't think
removing the immediate/30-day requirement would cause a shift in
ARIN operational policy to remove the practice of showing
documentation to substantiate the use of the addresses.<br>
<br>
Perhaps ARIN staff could comment on the current operational
practices for demonstrating usage for new end-users, if that
includes a "tangible evidence requirement"?<br>
<br>
And if the removal of the "immediate" usage of 25% would cause ARIN
staff in their implementation to not conduct such a requirement on
the 50% within one year test. <br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/29/2016 8:00 AM, Jason Schiller
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAC4yj2U91cAJ9mwXeQBj2JZbq4kwa6cX1Ch-o8tPqbYcTbmjUw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">McTim,
<div><br>
</div>
WRT some other tangible and verifiable claim to show there was a
real commitment to use half the address space within one year...
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think there are 3 choices:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. Very vague </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Something like "there must be some tangible and verifiable
claim to show there was a real commitment to use half the
address space within one year and not just a future projection
or business case"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. Open ended with some guidance for ARIN staff:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Something like "there must be some tangible and
verifiable claim to show there was a real commitment to use
half the address space within one year and not just a future
projection or business case. Some examples include:</div>
<div>- list of equipment in hand to be numbered counting at
least 25% of requested IP size </div>
<div>- invoices showing equipment purchases demonstrating a
commitment to buy equipment to be numbered counting at least
25% of requested IP size</div>
<div>- invoices showing equipment purchases demonstrating a
commitment to buy equipment to be numbered counting at least
50% of requested IP size within one year</div>
<div>- lease agreements for real estate supporting equipment
that is appropratly sized to support equipment to be
numbered counting at least 50% of requested IP size</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>3. specific criterion</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>----</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don't know what it the right answer here, and suspect
it has more to do with what the community is comfortable
with.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On one end of the spectrum is choice 1. This allows ARIN
to do the right thing. But this also is not clear about
what the community expects, and ARIN may act in a way that
is counter to what is anticipated, and may seem like ARIN is
being arbitrary or has too much leeway to screw with
requestors.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The opposite end of the spectrum is choice 3. This sets a
very clear list of what qualifies. Hammering out that list
may be very difficult, and it is unlikely to be complete.
This will leave little or no room for ARIN to do the right
thing and approve a request that is justified, but not one of
the criterion listed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Choice 2 is the middle ground. Where we have a not
necessarily complete list of criterion (so somewhat less
difficulty in drawing up the list) that creates a very clear
expectation of what ARIN should accept (and reduces the
possibility that ARIN may act in a way that is counter to what
is anticipated, and may seem like ARIN is being arbitrary or
has too much leeway to screw with requestors) with respect to
criterion clearly defined, while also allowing ARIN to do the
right thing with similar types of proof that are not
explicitly listed as criterion (this has somewhat higher risk
that ARIN may act in a way that is counter to what is
anticipated, and may seem like ARIN is being arbitrary or has
too much leeway to screw with requestors, but less risk than
option 1 as the criterion should serve as good guidance)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So two open questions to the community?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. Is the community most comfortable with:</div>
<div> A. totally vague and open-ended such as "there must be
some tangible and verifiable claim to show there was a real
commitment to use half the address space within one year and
not just a future projection or business case"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> B. A vague statement with some guidance as to some
acceptable forms of tangible verifiable proof of a real
commitment to use half the IP address within one year.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> C. A very clear list of what proof is considered
acceptable</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2. If the community prefers B. guidance or C. a very clear
list then what sort of things would the community like to see
on that list?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 8:27 AM, McTim
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com" target="_blank">dogwallah@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Thu, Jan 28,
2016 at 4:52 PM, Jason Schiller <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jschiller@google.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jschiller@google.com">jschiller@google.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I support the removal of the 30 day
utilization as it is unreasonable for any larger
end-site, who may have a real need for say a
/16, with 65,000 desktops arriving on a loading
doc next week, but an inability to unbox,
configure and deploy 16,384 to the various
office locations in 30 days.
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</span>
<div>agreed.</div>
<span class="">
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>However, this is the only provision that
has a real, tangible, and verifiable claim.
Without this check justified need for end
users simply becomes a 1 year future looking
projection, and with sufficient arm waving an
easy end run around justified need for any end
user with no IP space or if they are
efficiently using what they currently hold. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</span>
<div>good point!</div>
<span class="">
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I could get on board if the maximum sized
block permitted on a purely future looking
projection was a /24 and you had to use it
prior to getting more.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</span>
<div>+1</div>
<span class="">
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I could certainly get on board if there
were some other tangible and verifiable claim
to show there was a real commitment to use
half the address space within one year.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</span>
<div>Would this language suffice, or would we need a
metric of some sort?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>McTim</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>__Jason</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan
28, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Brian Jones <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bjones@vt.edu"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bjones@vt.edu">bjones@vt.edu</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:small">Looks
good to me Dave. I am okay
with using criteria or
criterion, however using the
strict definition it looks as
though criterion is the proper
singular form.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br
clear="all">
<div>
<div>--<br>
Brian</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 5:54
PM, David Farmer <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu">farmer@umn.edu</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">The
following is the
proposed update for
ARIN-2015-3: Remove
30-Day Utilization
Requirement in End-User
IPv4 Policy based on
strong support in
Montreal.<br>
<br>
Beyond deleting the 25%
bullet as the policy
says, their are
editorial changes as
follows to the remaining
text;<br>
<br>
- It looks weird to have
single item bullet list,
so merge the two
remaining sentence
fragments into a single
sentence.<br>
- Change "are" to "is",
since there is only one
remaining criteria<br>
- Use of "criteria" as a
singular is common
usage, even though
technically it's plural.<br>
- Resulting in "The
basic criteria that must
be met is a 50%
utilization rate within
one year."<br>
<br>
The remaining and
resulting text for 4.3.3
is now included in the
policy text, for
editorial clarity. The
original staff and legal
suggested removing the
RFC2050 reference and
also pointed out that<br>
4.2.3.6 also has a 25%
immediate use clause and
a RFC2050 reference.<br>
<br>
Feedback in Montreal was
that deleting the 25%
immediate use was a nice
bite-sized change, and
we shouldn't try to do
more than that with this
change, so those changes
are not included at this
time.<br>
<br>
Any additional feedback
or comments are
appreciated.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
---------<br>
<br>
Draft Policy
ARIN-2015-3: Remove 30
day utilization
requirement in end-user
IPv4 policy<br>
<br>
Date: 27 January 2015<br>
<br>
Problem Statement:<br>
<br>
End-user policy is
intended to provide
end-users with a one
year supply of IP
addresses. Qualification
for a one-year supply
requires the network
operator to utilize at
least 25% of the
requested addresses
within 30 days. This
text is unrealistic and
should be removed.<br>
<br>
First, it often takes
longer than 30 days to
stage equipment and
start actually using the
addresses.<br>
<br>
Second, growth is often
not that regimented; the
forecast is to use X
addresses over the
course of a year, not to
use 25% of X within 30
days.<br>
<br>
Third, this policy text
applies to additional
address space requests.
It is incompatible with
the requirements of
other additional address
space request
justification which
indicates that 80%
utilization of existing
space is sufficient to
justify new space. If a
block is at 80%, then
often (almost always?)
the remaining 80% will
be used over the next 30
days and longer.
Therefore the operator
cannot honestly state
they will use 25% of the
ADDITIONAL space within
30 days of receiving it;
they're still trying to
use their older block
efficiently.<br>
<br>
Fourth, in the face of
ARIN exhaustion, some
ISPs are starting to not
give out /24 (or larger)
blocks. So the
justification for the
25% rule that previously
existed (and in fact,
applied for many years)
is no longer germane.<br>
<br>
Policy statement:<br>
<br>
Remove the 25%
utilization criteria
bullet point from NRPM
4.3.3.<br>
<br>
Resulting text:<br>
<br>
4.3.3. Utilization rate<br>
<br>
Utilization rate of
address space is a key
factor in justifying a
new<br>
assignment of IP address
space. Requesters must
show exactly how<br>
previous address
assignments have been
utilized and must
provide<br>
appropriate details to
verify their one-year
growth projection.<br>
<br>
The basic criteria that
must be met is a 50%
utilization rate within
one year.<br>
<br>
A greater utilization
rate may be required
based on individual
network<br>
requirements. Please
refer to RFC 2050 for
more information on<br>
utilization guidelines.<br>
<br>
Comments:<br>
a.Timetable for
implementation:
Immediate<br>
b.Anything else<br>
<br>
-- <br>
================================================<br>
David Farmer
Email: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu">farmer@umn.edu</a></a><br>
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href="tel:1-612-812-9952" value="+16128129952" target="_blank">1-612-812-9952</a><br>
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<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br clear="all">
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-- <br>
<div>Cheers,<br>
<br>
McTim<br>
"A name indicates what we seek. An address
indicates where it is. A route indicates how we
get there." Jon Postel</div>
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