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    I would think that ARIN staff would already apply a "show me
    tangible evidence requirement" to a 50% within a year requirement. 
    <br>
    <br>
    My understanding is that that is current ARIN staff practice for new
    organizations requires them to show evidence they will actually use
    the IPv4 addresses on an operational network.  I don't think
    removing the immediate/30-day requirement would cause a shift in
    ARIN operational policy to remove the practice of showing
    documentation to substantiate the use of the addresses.<br>
    <br>
    Perhaps ARIN staff could comment on the current operational
    practices for demonstrating usage for new end-users, if that
    includes a "tangible evidence requirement"?<br>
    <br>
    And if the removal of the "immediate" usage of 25% would cause ARIN
    staff in their implementation to not conduct such a requirement on
    the 50% within one year test. <br>
    <br>
    Andrew<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/29/2016 8:00 AM, Jason Schiller
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAC4yj2U91cAJ9mwXeQBj2JZbq4kwa6cX1Ch-o8tPqbYcTbmjUw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">McTim,
        <div><br>
        </div>
        WRT some other tangible and verifiable claim to show there was a
        real commitment to use half the address space within one year...
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>I think there are 3 choices:</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>1. Very vague </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Something like "there must be some  tangible and verifiable
          claim to show there was a real commitment to use half the
          address space within one year and not just a future projection
          or business case"</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>2. Open ended with some guidance for ARIN staff:</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>
          <div>Something like "there must be some  tangible and
            verifiable claim to show there was a real commitment to use
            half the address space within one year and not just a future
            projection or business case.  Some examples include:</div>
          <div>- list of equipment in hand to be numbered counting at
            least 25% of requested IP size </div>
          <div>- invoices showing equipment purchases demonstrating a
            commitment to buy equipment to be numbered counting at least
            25% of requested IP size</div>
          <div>- invoices showing equipment purchases demonstrating a
            commitment to buy equipment to be numbered counting at least
            50% of requested IP size within one year</div>
          <div>- lease agreements for real estate supporting equipment
            that is appropratly sized to support equipment to be
            numbered counting at least 50% of requested IP size</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>3. specific criterion</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>----</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I don't know what it the right answer here, and suspect
            it has more to do with what the community is comfortable
            with.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>On one end of the spectrum is choice 1.  This allows ARIN
            to do the right thing.  But this also is not clear about
            what the community expects, and  ARIN may act in a way that
            is counter to what is anticipated, and may seem like ARIN is
            being arbitrary or has too much leeway to screw with
            requestors.</div>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>The opposite end of the spectrum is choice 3.  This sets a
          very clear list of what qualifies.  Hammering out that list
          may be very difficult, and it is unlikely to be complete. 
          This will leave little or no room for ARIN to do the right
          thing and approve a request that is justified, but not one of
          the criterion listed.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Choice 2 is the middle ground.  Where we have a not
          necessarily complete list of criterion (so somewhat less
          difficulty in drawing up the list) that creates a very clear
          expectation of what ARIN should accept (and reduces the
          possibility that ARIN may act in a way that is counter to what
          is anticipated, and may seem like ARIN is being arbitrary or
          has too much leeway to screw with requestors) with respect to
          criterion clearly defined, while also allowing ARIN to do the
          right thing with similar types of proof that are not
          explicitly listed as criterion (this has somewhat higher risk
          that ARIN may act in a way that is counter to what is
          anticipated, and may seem like ARIN is being arbitrary or has
          too much leeway to screw with requestors, but less risk than
          option 1 as the criterion should serve as good guidance)</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>So two open questions to the community?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>1. Is the community most comfortable with:</div>
        <div>    A. totally vague and open-ended such as "there must be
          some  tangible and verifiable claim to show there was a real
          commitment to use half the address space within one year and
          not just a future projection or business case"</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>   B. A vague statement with some guidance as to some
          acceptable forms of tangible verifiable proof of a real
          commitment to use half the IP address within one year.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>  C. A very clear list of what proof is considered
          acceptable</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>2. If the community prefers B. guidance or C. a very clear
          list then what sort of things would the community like to see
          on that list?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 8:27 AM, McTim
          <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:dogwallah@gmail.com" target="_blank">dogwallah@gmail.com</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
              <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                <div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Thu, Jan 28,
                    2016 at 4:52 PM, Jason Schiller <span dir="ltr"><<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:jschiller@google.com"
                        target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jschiller@google.com">jschiller@google.com</a></a>></span>
                    wrote:<br>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                      .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div dir="ltr">I support the removal of the 30 day
                        utilization as it is unreasonable for any larger
                        end-site, who may have a real need for say a
                        /16, with 65,000 desktops arriving on a loading
                        doc next week, but an inability to unbox,
                        configure and deploy 16,384 to the various
                        office locations in 30 days. 
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                  </span>
                  <div>agreed.</div>
                  <span class="">
                    <div> </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                      .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div>However, this is the only provision that
                          has a real, tangible, and verifiable claim. 
                          Without this check justified need for end
                          users simply becomes a 1 year future looking
                          projection, and with sufficient arm waving an
                          easy end run around justified need for any end
                          user with no IP space or if they are
                          efficiently using what they currently hold.  </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                  </span>
                  <div>good point!</div>
                  <span class="">
                    <div> </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                      .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div>I could get on board if the maximum sized
                          block permitted on a purely future looking
                          projection was a /24 and you had to use it
                          prior to getting more.</div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                  </span>
                  <div>+1</div>
                  <span class="">
                    <div> </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                      .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div>I could certainly get on board if there
                          were some other tangible and verifiable claim
                          to show there was a real commitment to use
                          half the address space within one year.</div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                  </span>
                  <div>Would this language suffice, or would we need a
                    metric of some sort?</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Regards,</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>McTim</div>
                  <div>
                    <div class="h5">
                      <div> </div>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
                        0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                        solid;padding-left:1ex">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div>__Jason</div>
                          <div>
                            <div class="gmail_extra">
                              <div>
                                <div><br>
                                  <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan
                                    28, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Brian Jones <span
                                      dir="ltr"><<a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        href="mailto:bjones@vt.edu"
                                        target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bjones@vt.edu">bjones@vt.edu</a></a>></span>
                                    wrote:<br>
                                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                      style="margin:0 0 0
                                      .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                      solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                        <div style="font-size:small">Looks
                                          good to me Dave. I am okay
                                          with using criteria or
                                          criterion, however using the
                                          strict definition it looks as
                                          though criterion is the proper
                                          singular form.</div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="gmail_extra"><br
                                          clear="all">
                                        <div>
                                          <div>--<br>
                                            Brian</div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <br>
                                            <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                              Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 5:54
                                              PM, David Farmer <span
                                                dir="ltr"><<a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu">farmer@umn.edu</a></a>></span>
                                              wrote:<br>
                                              <blockquote
                                                class="gmail_quote"
                                                style="margin:0 0 0
                                                .8ex;border-left:1px
                                                #ccc
                                                solid;padding-left:1ex">The
                                                following is the
                                                proposed update for
                                                ARIN-2015-3: Remove
                                                30-Day Utilization
                                                Requirement in End-User
                                                IPv4 Policy based on
                                                strong support in
                                                Montreal.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Beyond deleting the 25%
                                                bullet as the policy
                                                says, their are
                                                editorial changes as
                                                follows to the remaining
                                                text;<br>
                                                <br>
                                                - It looks weird to have
                                                single item bullet list,
                                                so merge the two
                                                remaining sentence
                                                fragments into a single
                                                sentence.<br>
                                                - Change "are" to "is",
                                                since there is only one
                                                remaining criteria<br>
                                                - Use of "criteria" as a
                                                singular is common
                                                usage, even though
                                                technically it's plural.<br>
                                                - Resulting in "The
                                                basic criteria that must
                                                be met is a 50%
                                                utilization rate within
                                                one year."<br>
                                                <br>
                                                The remaining and
                                                resulting text for 4.3.3
                                                is now included in the
                                                policy text, for
                                                editorial clarity.  The
                                                original staff and legal
                                                suggested removing the
                                                RFC2050 reference and
                                                also pointed out that<br>
                                                4.2.3.6 also has a 25%
                                                immediate use clause and
                                                a RFC2050 reference.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Feedback in Montreal was
                                                that deleting the 25%
                                                immediate use was a nice
                                                bite-sized change, and
                                                we shouldn't try to do
                                                more than that with this
                                                change, so those changes
                                                are not included at this
                                                time.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Any additional feedback
                                                or comments are
                                                appreciated.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Thanks<br>
                                                <br>
                                                ---------<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Draft Policy
                                                ARIN-2015-3: Remove 30
                                                day utilization
                                                requirement in end-user
                                                IPv4 policy<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Date: 27 January 2015<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Problem Statement:<br>
                                                <br>
                                                End-user policy is
                                                intended to provide
                                                end-users with a one
                                                year supply of IP
                                                addresses. Qualification
                                                for a one-year supply
                                                requires the network
                                                operator to utilize at
                                                least 25% of the
                                                requested addresses
                                                within 30 days. This
                                                text is unrealistic and
                                                should be removed.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                First, it often takes
                                                longer than 30 days to
                                                stage equipment and
                                                start actually using the
                                                addresses.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Second, growth is often
                                                not that regimented; the
                                                forecast is to use X
                                                addresses over the
                                                course of a year, not to
                                                use 25% of X within 30
                                                days.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Third, this policy text
                                                applies to additional
                                                address space requests.
                                                It is incompatible with
                                                the requirements of
                                                other additional address
                                                space request
                                                justification which
                                                indicates that 80%
                                                utilization of existing
                                                space is sufficient to
                                                justify new space. If a
                                                block is at 80%, then
                                                often (almost always?)
                                                the remaining 80% will
                                                be used over the next 30
                                                days and longer.
                                                Therefore the operator
                                                cannot honestly state
                                                they will use 25% of the
                                                ADDITIONAL space within
                                                30 days of receiving it;
                                                they're still trying to
                                                use their older block
                                                efficiently.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Fourth, in the face of
                                                ARIN exhaustion, some
                                                ISPs are starting to not
                                                give out /24 (or larger)
                                                blocks. So the
                                                justification for the
                                                25% rule that previously
                                                existed (and in fact,
                                                applied for many years)
                                                is no longer germane.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Policy statement:<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Remove the 25%
                                                utilization criteria
                                                bullet point from NRPM
                                                4.3.3.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Resulting text:<br>
                                                <br>
                                                4.3.3. Utilization rate<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Utilization rate of
                                                address space is a key
                                                factor in justifying a
                                                new<br>
                                                assignment of IP address
                                                space. Requesters must
                                                show exactly how<br>
                                                previous address
                                                assignments have been
                                                utilized and must
                                                provide<br>
                                                appropriate details to
                                                verify their one-year
                                                growth projection.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                The basic criteria that
                                                must be met is a 50%
                                                utilization rate within
                                                one year.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                A greater utilization
                                                rate may be required
                                                based on individual
                                                network<br>
                                                requirements. Please
                                                refer to RFC 2050 for
                                                more information on<br>
                                                utilization guidelines.<br>
                                                <br>
                                                Comments:<br>
                                                a.Timetable for
                                                implementation:
                                                Immediate<br>
                                                b.Anything else<br>
                                                <br>
                                                -- <br>
================================================<br>
                                                David Farmer           
                                                   Email: <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu">farmer@umn.edu</a></a><br>
                                                Office of Information
                                                Technology<br>
                                                University of Minnesota<br>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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Please contact <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.</pre>
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