<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 22, 2015, at 12:31 , Richard J. Letts <<a href="mailto:rjletts@uw.edu" class="">rjletts@uw.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">As an alternative to ARIN taking on the burden of allowing/managing SWIP for end-user registrants how about allowing end-user registrants to register/run a rwhois server?</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>As was noted in the discussion of 2015-8, that is already allowed and fully supported.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">That way if a large organization (like, say Apple or Microsoft) wants to publish data for their networks they can take on all the server costs and managing the data without imposing significant additional costs on ARIN?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Would that meet the need?</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>IMHO, yes. Had that not been the case, I probably would have suggested modifying this proposal to have that effect rather than abandoning it. However, since what you are asking for was already present and that seems to address most of the needs expressed by the community, given the complete lack of support for this proposal, I felt abandonment was the correct course.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; line-height: 12pt; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(17, 17, 17);" class="">Richard Letts</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" class="">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>David Huberman<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, December 22, 2015 11:45 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Advisory Council Meeting Results - December 2015<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Following the excellent example that Scott Leibrand has done over the years, I wish to convey my objections over the abandonment of 2015-8, which would allow End-users to SWIP.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Year after year, and issue after issue, John Curran tells us "this is the way we are doing it; if you want us to change, go propose a policy".<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">That's exactly what happened with 2015-8. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The issue is complex because of the billing issues (most of the justification for the original ISP fee schedule was because of SWIP) and the existence of the dichotomy between ISPs and EUs.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">But the proposal is sound, in my opinion. It introduces a policy requirement to force ARIN to change how it runs its software. There's no wiggle room when a policy like this is passed. The community speaks, the staff carries it out.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I acknowledge that there was not tremendous support at the first public meeting for 2015-8, but I think that is insufficient cause to abandon it. We should discuss it further.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">It should not be abdicated to the services WG which is not an elected body.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">David<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Sent from<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://aka.ms/qtex0l" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Outlook Mobile</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 11:26 AM -0800, "ARIN" <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">info@arin.net</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">In accordance with the ARIN Policy Development Process (PDP), the ARIN<br class="">Advisory Council (AC) met on 17 December 2015.<br class=""><br class="">Having found the following Draft Policy to be fully developed and<br class="">meeting ARIN's Principles of Internet Number Resource Policy, the AC<br class="">recommended it for adoption (to be posted separately for discussion as a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Recommended Draft Policy):<br class=""><br class=""> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-11: Remove transfer language which only<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">applied pre-exhaustion of IPv4 pool<br class=""><br class="">The AC abandoned the following:<br class=""><br class=""> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users<br class=""><br class="">The AC provided the following statement, "The ARIN AC has voted to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">abandon draft proposal ARIN-2015-8. Although a number of participants at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">ARIN 36 and on the PPML indicated support for investigation of greater<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">harmonization of the services provided by ARIN to ISPs and End-Users,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">this specific proposal had no substantial community<br class="">support. In fact, those who addressed themselves to the specific<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">proposal, rather than broader issue of fees charged to ISPs vs.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">End-users or the types of services that ARIN should provide to each<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">class of clients, did not support the specific proposal itself. Based on<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">community feedback, we would suggest the broader issues be considered by<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">ARIN, as part of a review of services."<br class=""><br class="">The AC is continuing to work on:<br class=""><br class=""> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Specified Recipients)<br class=""> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-3: Remove 30 day utilization requirement in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">end-user IPv4 policy<br class=""> Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2015-5: Out of region use<br class=""> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-6: Transfers and Multi-national Networks<br class=""> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-7: Simplified requirements for demonstrated<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">need for IPv4 transfers<br class=""> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9: Eliminating needs-based evaluation for<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Section 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4 transfers of IPv4 netblocks<br class=""><br class="">The AC abandoned 2015-8. Anyone dissatisfied with this decision may<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">initiate a petition. The deadline to begin a petition will be five<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">business days after the AC's draft meeting minutes are published. For<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">more information on starting and participating in petitions, see PDP<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Petitions at:<br class=""><a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp_petitions.html" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp_petitions.html</a><br class=""><br class="">Draft Policy and Proposal texts are available at:<br class=""><a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html</a><br class=""><br class="">The ARIN Policy Development Process can be found at:<br class=""><a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html</a><br class=""><br class="">Regards,<br class=""><br class="">Communications and Member Services<br class="">American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)<br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">PPML<br class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class=""><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">info@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; 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