<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Steven,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">You don’t have to go outside of policy to use a broker.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you actually need the addresses, you can get a pre-approval through ARIN, take your pre-approval to one or more brokers and arrange to obtain the addresses you need and come back to ARIN and complete the transfer.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We have new rules to address the fact that times have changed somewhat.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That’s what 8.3 and 8.4 of the NRPM are.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 5, 2015, at 1:29 PM, Steven Ryerse <<a href="mailto:SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com" class="">SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I don’t understand why everyone wants to keep blocking all outside of ARIN transactions. A year from now there might be a thousand or more legitimate organizations that meet one or more of the current policies to qualify for an IPv4 allocation. Let’s say that is your Org or your Customer’s Org - and ARIN dutifully places you on their waiting list. Time passes and no significant supply comes available for your request. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">So then what do you do? ARIN can’t fulfill your request timely. You have a legitimate need. If IPv6 won’t work, Is living without the resources you need really acceptable? If not do you break down and call a Broker to help find you the resources that you need?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Why does this community continually paint organizations into the corner of not being able to get IPv4 resources without going outside of ARINs policies? John asked this community to visit the issue of runout several months ago, and there was some discussion but I’ve seen no real will to make any significant adjustments to try and deal with the new world we all must live in now.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">We can keep rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, or we can face reality that times have completely changed and the old rules won’t work in a new ARIN world. My 2 cents.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Steven Ryerse<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">President<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">770.656.1460 - Cell<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">770.399.9099- Office<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'MS Mincho'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span id="cid:image001.jpg@01D0FF89.7AC88B30"><image001.jpg></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'MS Mincho'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">℠</span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Eclipse Networks, Inc.</span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: 0.5in;" class=""><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> Conquering Complex Networks</span></sup><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">℠</span></sup><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></sup></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Martin Hannigan<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, October 5, 2015 4:08 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Scott Leibrand <<a href="mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">scottleibrand@gmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ppml@arin.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Thoughts on 2015-7<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Scott Leibrand <<a href="mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">scottleibrand@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Reducing the burden on ARIN staff is not part of the problem statement for this proposal (though it might be a side effect, depending on how they implement it). The main goal here is to reduce the administrative burden on organizations who need to acquire IPv4 space via transfer. That burden may actually be higher for smaller entities who don't have experience with and processes in place for jumping through ARIN's hoops.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I don't think this policy would have much impact on the ability of large well-funded entities to purchase as much address space as they like. Currently, those organizations simply write a contract that gives them full rights to the address space they're buying, and allows them to transfer the space with ARIN whenever they are ready to put it into use on their network (or can otherwise pass ARIN's needs justification tests).<span class="hoenzb"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Let me give you a real world example.<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">1. Buy rights to use addresses in any quantity you believe you need<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">2. Use those addresses as you need them, assuming the agreement you made with the party works properly<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">3. Get an LOA from the documented owner<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">4. Bypass ARIN entirely<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">5. Use the addresses.<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">How do you think we should solve that problem?<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Best,<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">-M<<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">PPML</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; 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