<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Your proposal was to allow anyone to get a /24 per year whether they needed anything or not.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I am not opposed to a policy which would allow organizations with lesser need to obtain a minimum size block (/24 or /48) if the potential for abuse can be adequately addressed.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">By abuse, I mean, for example, the creation of entities with minimalist infrastructure strictly for the sake of qualifying for addresses.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’m all for the local bakery to be able to get a /24 to support their 3 cash registers, a router, and a few menu board displays.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">However, I’m not for VPNs-R-US being able to create 1024 entities each of which owns an SRX-100 and qualifies for a /24 on that basis.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don’t think resource policy should substantially change in a post-runout world and nothing said so far gives me any reason to believe there is benefit to the community from doing so.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This isn't about miserly blocking of allocations for future theoretical use. This is about trying to make sure that organizations with need have the best chance of getting resources they need that we can provide. Allowing organizations without need to hoard addresses is contrary to that goal.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Interestingly, we seem to have the same goal but radically different opinions on how best to achieve it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 25, 2015, at 12:32 , Steven Ryerse <<a href="mailto:SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com" class="">SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I would probably agree with your comment that neither of the above really helps anyone and probably creates a host of other issues. I would probably not advocate them either but they would be more fair that the policies in place now.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Of course the easy fix is to allow Organizations of any size to easily get the Minimum size block which I believe is now a /24 and that would go a long way towards fixing the problem. I put forth just that policy change proposal a while back with a limit of one block per year for small organizations and that Policy Proposal was summarily dumped by folks with Owen’s views.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">My preference is to allow organizations to more easily get resources in this post Run-Out world, rather than to somehow try to miserly block allocations in the hope of saving them for some unknown future use. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I appreciate your attempt to be constructive.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Steven Ryerse<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">President<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">770.656.1460 - Cell<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">770.399.9099- Office<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'MS Mincho'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><image001.jpg></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'MS Mincho'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">℠</span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Eclipse Networks, Inc.</span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: 0.5in;" class=""><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> Conquering Complex Networks</span></sup><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">℠</span></sup><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></sup></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mike Winters [<a href="mailto:mwinters@edwardrose.com" class="">mailto:mwinters@edwardrose.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, September 25, 2015 3:03 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Steven Ryerse <<a href="mailto:SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com" class="">SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9: Eliminating needs-based evaluation for Section 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4 transfers of IPv4 netblocks<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">That’s an interesting take on the “inequity”…<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">However, there is a fundamental flaw with your “inequity” situation. If there is not enough addresses for a small organization to get them, then nobody would get them.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">They will eventually rise to the top just like everyone else, ergo no inequity.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Assuming for a moment your argument is correct and not seriously flawed, then arguing that letting people who don’t need addresses get addresses is silly since it would only exacerbate the problem.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">It seems the best way to “fix this inequity” that you describe would be to either:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">a)<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">not let larger organizations accept smaller allocations; or<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">b)<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">make everyone take smaller allocations; or<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">c)<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">let ARIN allocate smaller blocks (really bad idea); or<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -0.25in;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">d)<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">some crazy combination of the above<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Neither of the above really helps anyone and probably creates a host of other issues.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">To be clear, I am not advocating any of the above.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Mike<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Steven Ryerse<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, September 25, 2015 1:48 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Owen DeLong<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9: Eliminating needs-based evaluation for Section 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4 transfers of IPv4 netblocks<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Owens comment from below:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">“2. To the extent that there is supply, anyone who needs addresses can get them already. Needs-based evaluation does not prevent those with need from getting addresses… It prevents those without need from getting them.”<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Owen’s comment is absolutely false!!!!! It allows large organizing who request resources to get what they need or something smaller. It allows medium size organizations</span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">who request resources to get what they need or something smaller. It allows small organizations who request resources to get what they need or nothing, and there is no other source to get resources if ARIN rejects a request, but the open market which Owen and others seem to wish did not exist!<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">It is time to fix this inequity and removing needs tests would be a big help to small organizations who really need resources! <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Steven Ryerse<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">President<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">770.656.1460 - Cell<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">770.399.9099- Office<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'MS Mincho'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><image001.jpg></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'MS Mincho'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">℠</span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Eclipse Networks, Inc.</span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: 0.5in;" class=""><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> Conquering Complex Networks</span></sup><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">℠</span></sup><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></sup></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Owen DeLong<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, September 25, 2015 1:24 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:elvis@velea.eu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">elvis@velea.eu</a><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9: Eliminating needs-based evaluation for Section 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4 transfers of IPv4 netblocks<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Sep 25, 2015, at 04:42 , Elvis Daniel Velea <<a href="mailto:elvis@velea.eu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">elvis@velea.eu</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class="">Hi Richard,<br class=""><br class="">On 25/09/15 06:46, Richard J. Letts wrote:</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class="">b)<br class="">There is no definitive outcome from the policy change, which makes me feel that it's not worth changing -- the problem statement argument is weak at best.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class="">the outcome is that everyone that will need IP addresses will be able to get them. Isn't that quite definitive and clear?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Sure, except it isn’t actually an outcome of the proposal on many levels:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">1. The proposal does nothing to guarantee a supply of addresses or even increase the supply.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">2. To the extent that there is supply, anyone who needs addresses can get them already. Needs-based evaluation does not prevent those with need from getting addresses… It prevents those without need from getting them.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">3. The definitive outcome from the policy change, if there is such, is that those without need will now be more easily able to acquire addresses, potentially preventing those with need from acquiring them.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; orphans: auto; text-align: start; widows: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class=""><br class="">It is potentially enabling organizations with more money than need gain more resources, potentially at the expense of non-profit and educational organizations who might not be able to raise cash for additional IPv4 space [or equipment to support a transition to IPv6].<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class="">So, you think that in today's market the non-profit/educational organizations will have the chance at getting some of the IP space from the market? And if the needs-based barrier is removed, they will no longer have that chance?<br class="">Everyone knows that the IP address is now an asset and is worth a buck. Who do you think will say: I'll give it for free to this educational organization (because they have proven the need to ARIN) instead of giving it for money to this commercial entity (that may or may not have a demonstrated need need for it).</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Contrary to your statement, there have been addresses returned to ARIN and there have been organizations who chose to transfer addresses to those they found worthy rather than maximize the monetization of those addresses.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">OTOH, having a policy like this in place certainly makes it easier to manipulate the market to maximize the price.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class="">I think we need to wake up. Keeping needs-based criteria in the policy will only cause SOME transfers to be driven underground and block some others.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I think claiming that those of us who believe needs-based criteria is still useful are asleep is unwarranted.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; orphans: auto; text-align: start; widows: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class="">Changing policy just to (potentially) improve the accuracy of a database seems not worth the (potential) risk.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class="">The change of the accuracy of the registry is already proven in the RIPE region. I would say it's not just potential, it is real and visible.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Please provide the metrics on which you base this assertion. How was RIPE-NCC accuracy measured prior to the policy change and to what extent was it improved as a result of this policy change. What mechanism was used to determine that the measured increase in accuracy was the result of the particular policy abandoning needs-based evaluation?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Owen<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; orphans: auto; text-align: start; widows: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-spacing: 0px;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class=""><br class="">Richard<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class="">regards,<br class="">Elvis</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class=""><br class="">________________________________________<br class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> on behalf of Dani Roisman <<a href="mailto:droisman@softlayer.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">droisman@softlayer.com</a>><br class="">Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 6:20 PM<br class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class="">Subject: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9: Eliminating needs-based evaluation for Section 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4 transfers of IPv4 netblocks<br class=""><br class="">| Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:53:59 -0400<br class="">| From: ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">info@arin.net</a>><br class="">| To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class="">| Subject: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9: Eliminating needs-based<br class="">| evaluation for Section 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4 transfers of IPv4 netblocks<br class="">| Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:56031167.1010007@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">56031167.1010007@arin.net</a>><br class="">| Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br class="">|<br class="">| Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9<br class="">| Eliminating needs-based evaluation for Section 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4<br class="">| transfers of IPv4 netblocks<br class="">|<br class="">| On 17 September 2015 the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted<br class="">| "ARIN-prop-223 Eliminating needs-based evaluation for Section 8.2, 8.3,<br class="">| and 8.4 transfers of IPv4 netblocks" as a Draft Policy.<br class="">|<br class="">| Draft Policy ARIN-2015-9 is below and can be found at:<br class="">|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2015_9.html" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2015_9.html</a><br class=""><br class="">Greetings,<br class=""><br class="">There has been some stimulating dialog about the merits of 2015-9. I'd like to ask that in addition to any overall support or lack thereof, you also review the policy language and comment specifically on the changes proposed:<br class="">a) For those of you generally in support of this effort, are there any refinements to the changes made which you think will improve this should these policy changes be implemented?<br class="">b) For those of you generally opposed to this effort, are there any adjustments to the policy changes which, if implemented, would gain your support?<br class=""><br class="">--<br class="">Dani Roisman<br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">PPML<br class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class=""><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">info@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.<br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">PPML<br class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class=""><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">info@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">PPML<br class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (</span><a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</span></a><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class="">).<br class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class=""></span><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class="">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</span></a><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class=""><br class="">Please contact<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class="">info@arin.net</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Courier;" class="">if you experience any issues.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; 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