<p dir="ltr">Generally against proposal as read.<br>
IMO any relaxation is in favor of those who when given an inch will generally take a mile or two and out of region use simply magnifies possibilities .<br>
RD<br>
</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Aug 20, 2015 7:10 PM, <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Thoughts on 2015-7 (Martin Hannigan)<br>
2. Re: Thoughts on 2015-7 (Matthew Kaufman)<br>
3. Re: Thoughts on 2015-7 (<a href="mailto:khatfield@socllc.net">khatfield@socllc.net</a>)<br>
4. Re: Thoughts on 2015-7 (Owen DeLong)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:50:58 -0400<br>
From: Martin Hannigan <<a href="mailto:hannigan@gmail.com">hannigan@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net">ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net">ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Thoughts on 2015-7<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:8BE49F13-E5E9-4939-94F7-A27CAFBD89F9@gmail.com">8BE49F13-E5E9-4939-94F7-A27CAFBD89F9@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I support this. The attestation, at least for US public companies, is not taken lightly. Its toothless, but not meaningless even if only symbolic.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
-M<<br>
<br>
> On Aug 20, 2015, at 18:32, Richard J. Letts <<a href="mailto:rjletts@uw.edu">rjletts@uw.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I'm unconvinced; the new policy leaves it too open for enabling speculation.<br>
><br>
> Richard Letts<br>
><br>
>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] On<br>
>> Behalf Of Rob Seastrom<br>
>> Sent: 20 August 2015 12:46 PM<br>
>> To: <a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net">ppml@arin.net</a><br>
>> Subject: [arin-ppml] Thoughts on 2015-7<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Dear Colleagues,<br>
>><br>
>> It's been almost two months since ARIN 2015-7 was submitted. Anyone have<br>
>> thoughts on "Simplified requirements for demonstrated need for IPv4<br>
>> transfers"?<br>
>><br>
>> The AC would love your input.<br>
>><br>
>> Draft policy text follows:<br>
>><br>
>> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-7<br>
>> Simplified requirements for demonstrated need for IPv4 transfers<br>
>><br>
>> Date: 23 June 2015<br>
>><br>
>> Problem statement:<br>
>><br>
>> ARIN transfer policy currently inherits all its demonstrated need<br>
>> requirements for IPv4 transfers from NRPM sections 4. Because that section<br>
>> was written primarily to deal with free pool allocations, it is much more<br>
>> complicated than is really necessary for transfers. In practice, ARIN<br>
>> staff applies much more lenient needs assessment to section 8 IPv4<br>
>> transfer requests than to free pool requests, as 24-month needs are much<br>
>> more difficult to assess to the same level of detail.<br>
>><br>
>> This proposal seeks to dramatically simplify the needs assessment process<br>
>> for 8.3 transfers, while still allowing organizations with corner-case<br>
>> requirements to apply under existing policy if necessary.<br>
>><br>
>> Policy statement:<br>
>><br>
>> 8.1.x Simplified requirements for demonstrated need for IPv4 transfers<br>
>><br>
>> IPv4 transfer recipients must demonstrate (and an officer of the<br>
>> requesting organization must attest) that they will use at least 50% of<br>
>> their aggregate IPv4 addresses (including the requested resources) on an<br>
>> operational network within 24 months.<br>
>><br>
>> Organizations that do not meet the simplified criteria above may instead<br>
>> demonstrate the need for number resources using the criteria in section<br>
>> 4 of the NRPM.<br>
>><br>
>> Comments:<br>
>><br>
>> a. Timetable for implementation: Immediate<br>
>><br>
>> b. Anything else<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> PPML<br>
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN<br>
>> Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
>> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 15:58:00 -0700<br>
From: Matthew Kaufman <<a href="mailto:matthew@matthew.at">matthew@matthew.at</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Thoughts on 2015-7<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:55D65B78.7090709@matthew.at">55D65B78.7090709@matthew.at</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
On 8/20/2015 2:05 PM, David Huberman wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi Bill,<br>
><br>
> > Still against it because it still applies to out-region transfers<br>
> where ARIN no<br>
><br>
> > longer has access to it and CAN NOT revoke it for fraud when the<br>
> attestation<br>
><br>
> > turns out to be untrue.<br>
><br>
> So I get what you're saying. And you're right. You and I petition<br>
> ARIN, attest<br>
> that we forecast to use a /X, we're lying, and we transfer it out of<br>
> the region and<br>
><br>
> ARIN is done with it - ARIN has no control over the block transferred out.<br>
><br>
<br>
That is true today. ARIN does not have any control over how IP blocks<br>
are used (or transferred) today.<br>
<br>
Which is why I'm supportive of this policy... it makes the right thing<br>
(recording a transfer properly in the ARIN database) happen.<br>
<br>
<br>
> The disagreement I have with this view is that I don't want us making<br>
> policy that<br>
><br>
> punishes the 99.9% of people who are telling the truth and just want<br>
> to run their<br>
><br>
> network, so that we can somehow "catch" the 0.01% of the scammers. I<br>
> prefer<br>
><br>
> making policy which works well for bona fide network operators.<br>
> People will always<br>
><br>
> lie, and I do not believe it?s ARIN?s job to catch that.<br>
><br>
<br>
Also agree... writing policy to try to block the wrongdoers always makes<br>
it harder for the legitimate users... which is the group ARIN should be<br>
supporting.<br>
<br>
Matthew Kaufman<br>
<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 17:57:09 -0500<br>
From: <a href="mailto:khatfield@socllc.net">khatfield@socllc.net</a><br>
To: David Huberman <<a href="mailto:David.Huberman@microsoft.com">David.Huberman@microsoft.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net">ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Thoughts on 2015-7<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:1159286698.499.1440111434641@5671a995fdba4007998cbd15e5014528.nuevasync.com">1159286698.499.1440111434641@5671a995fdba4007998cbd15e5014528.nuevasync.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I agree with David here. I do believe there should be a requirement that any new allocations must keep the allocation x amount of time before it can transferred. Possibly 12 months+ which would thereby kill most ideas to sell for profit.<br>
<br>
-Kevin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Aug 20, 2015, at 4:05 PM, David Huberman <<a href="mailto:David.Huberman@microsoft.com">David.Huberman@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi Bill,<br>
><br>
> > Still against it because it still applies to out-region transfers where ARIN no<br>
> > longer has access to it and CAN NOT revoke it for fraud when the attestation<br>
> > turns out to be untrue.<br>
><br>
> So I get what you're saying. And you're right. You and I petition ARIN, attest<br>
> that we forecast to use a /X, we're lying, and we transfer it out of the region and<br>
> ARIN is done with it - ARIN has no control over the block transferred out.<br>
><br>
> The disagreement I have with this view is that I don't want us making policy that<br>
> punishes the 99.9% of people who are telling the truth and just want to run their<br>
> network, so that we can somehow "catch" the 0.01% of the scammers. I prefer<br>
> making policy which works well for bona fide network operators. People will always<br>
> lie, and I do not believe it?s ARIN?s job to catch that.<br>
><br>
> Thanks!<br>
> David<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 16:09:36 -0700<br>
From: Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>><br>
To: David Huberman <<a href="mailto:David.Huberman@microsoft.com">David.Huberman@microsoft.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:ppml@arin.net">ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Thoughts on 2015-7<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:30A91C6A-B2BD-4F00-AC7D-723BC70E1585@delong.com">30A91C6A-B2BD-4F00-AC7D-723BC70E1585@delong.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
This is one of those areas where people of good conscience can disagree.<br>
<br>
I absolutely feel it is ARINs job as a steward of resources held in trust for the community<br>
to exercise due diligence in the issuance of those resources and to revoke them when<br>
fraud is detected.<br>
<br>
It may not be ARIN?s job to catch 100% of the liars out there, but it is certainly important<br>
that we do not hamstring ARIN in their ability to protect the community from the liars<br>
and the fraudsters to the extent possible.<br>
<br>
I am opposed to the proposal.<br>
<br>
Owen<br>
<br>
> On Aug 20, 2015, at 14:05 , David Huberman <<a href="mailto:David.Huberman@microsoft.com">David.Huberman@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi Bill, <><br>
><br>
> > Still against it because it still applies to out-region transfers where ARIN no<br>
> > longer has access to it and CAN NOT revoke it for fraud when the attestation<br>
> > turns out to be untrue.<br>
><br>
> So I get what you're saying. And you're right. You and I petition ARIN, attest<br>
> that we forecast to use a /X, we're lying, and we transfer it out of the region and<br>
> ARIN is done with it - ARIN has no control over the block transferred out.<br>
><br>
> The disagreement I have with this view is that I don't want us making policy that<br>
> punishes the 99.9% of people who are telling the truth and just want to run their<br>
> network, so that we can somehow "catch" the 0.01% of the scammers. I prefer<br>
> making policy which works well for bona fide network operators. People will always<br>
> lie, and I do not believe it?s ARIN?s job to catch that.<br>
><br>
> Thanks!<br>
> David<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>>).<br>
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a> <<a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a>><br>
> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a>> if you experience any issues.<br>
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</blockquote></div>