<p dir="ltr">Relating to rights and property of IP numbers.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Does the proposed IANA transition change the landscape or has potential to change the current status?</p>
<p dir="ltr">RD</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 5, 2015 12:52 PM, <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: On IPv4 free pool runout and transfer policy requirements<br>
for the ARIN region (William Herrin)<br>
2. Re: ARIN-PPML 2015-2 (Richard J. Letts)<br>
3. Re: On IPv4 free pool runout and transfer policy requirements<br>
for the ARIN region (Mike Burns)<br>
4. Re: ARIN-PPML 2015-2 (William Herrin)<br>
5. Re: On IPv4 free pool runout and transfer policy requirements<br>
for the ARIN region (William Herrin)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 12:01:09 -0400<br>
From: William Herrin <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a>><br>
To: Lu Heng <<a href="mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com">h.lu@anytimechinese.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a> List" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] On IPv4 free pool runout and transfer policy<br>
requirements for the ARIN region<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAP-guGU4A_ioQOchu-UYt2+G-vitMawa7T0cp1FgeULDaSZ_=<a href="mailto:A@mail.gmail.com">A@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Lu Heng <<a href="mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com">h.lu@anytimechinese.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Remove need based potentially unify a global transfer policy since APNIC and<br>
> RIPE has already done so.<br>
<br>
Hi Lu,<br>
<br>
A globally coordinated policy which also constrained subregistries to<br>
facilitate transfers in accordance with the policy might be<br>
worthwhile. We'd have to take care not to pretend that ARIN and APNIC<br>
work the same way: APNIC cedes much of its registry operation to<br>
National Internet Registries, non-operating entities whose role is to<br>
be miniature APNICs. ARIN has subregistries in little more than name.<br>
ISPs are operating entities which apply the allocated IP addresses to<br>
_their_ operations with the full expectation that the customer holds<br>
addresses only so long as they purchase the attached network service.<br>
<br>
Put simply: APNIC NIRs would have to comply with any global transfer<br>
policy as well even as ARIN ISPs are understood to be the direct<br>
customer instead.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Bill Herrin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
William Herrin ................ <a href="mailto:herrin@dirtside.com">herrin@dirtside.com</a> <a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a><br>
Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <<a href="http://www.dirtside.com/" target="_blank">http://www.dirtside.com/</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 16:22:58 +0000<br>
From: "Richard J. Letts" <<a href="mailto:rjletts@uw.edu">rjletts@uw.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:SN1PR08MB18232722966F578320CAF73FC0B20@SN1PR08MB1823.namprd08.prod.outlook.com">SN1PR08MB18232722966F578320CAF73FC0B20@SN1PR08MB1823.namprd08.prod.outlook.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
If that is the case, then ARIN/We should update inter-RIR policies to only allow transfers to registries that have substantially similar transfer policies. This does not require complete blobal co-ordination, but it will establish areas where co-operating RIRs get access to free markets and uncooperative RIRs do not.<br>
<br>
If target registry does not allow transfers out of their RIR then<br>
reject transfer to target registry<br>
If target registry allows transfers out of their RIR to any other registry that does not allow transfers out of their RIR then<br>
reject transfer to target registry<br>
else<br>
accept the transfer<br>
<br>
Otherwise you have the situation where limited addresses cannot be transferred across border, leading to an imperfect market which (long-term) affects the rest of the world?s ability to function using IPv4 (which will be significant for a while yet)<br>
<br>
In the meantime, making it harder to move recently acquired addresses to a different RIR acts as a brake on the ability to arbitrage or move relatively recently acquired addresses to a registry with restrictive market policies.<br>
<br>
Richard Letts<br>
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] On Behalf Of Rocky<br>
Sent: 4 June 2015 6:24 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2<br>
<br>
Hi William,<br>
<br>
Same as the CNNIC, KRNIC, VINNIC, IDNIC and NIXI ( Indian NIR) do not allow to transfer their IPv4 addresses out of their NIRs.<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 12:39:42 -0400<br>
From: "Mike Burns" <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com">mike@iptrading.com</a>><br>
To: "'William Herrin'" <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a>>, "'Lu Heng'"<br>
<<a href="mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com">h.lu@anytimechinese.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] On IPv4 free pool runout and transfer policy<br>
requirements for the ARIN region<br>
Message-ID: <027201d09fae$3920ef50$ab62cdf0$@<a href="http://iptrading.com" target="_blank">iptrading.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
<br>
Put simply: APNIC NIRs would have to comply with any global transfer policy<br>
as well even as ARIN ISPs are understood to be the direct customer instead.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Bill Herrin<br>
<br>
Hi Bill,<br>
<br>
What about when the NIR and RIR allow for outgoing transfers but a specific<br>
country makes it illegal for their citizens to do this?<br>
Do we hold inter-regional transfer policy hostage to any particular<br>
country's law?<br>
I will note that although RIPE allows transfers, country-based sanctions<br>
prevent those transfers to Iranian organizations.<br>
<br>
These are untested waters. The relationship between RIRs and NIRs insofar as<br>
policy compliance is probably a matter of those RIR's individual policies.<br>
Or is the NIR concept elucidated in some global document?<br>
<br>
Is it good enough that at the APNIC level we have reciprocity?<br>
<br>
I believe that it is not required for Chinese firms to hold all their<br>
addresses within CNNIC, rather some can be held directly in APNIC accounts.<br>
So what if a Chinese buyer opened an APNIC account and purchased<br>
inter-regionally, then transferred from APNIC to CNNIC under their existing<br>
policies?<br>
Or just left the accounts registered in APNIC?<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 12:41:31 -0400<br>
From: William Herrin <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a>><br>
To: "Richard J. Letts" <<a href="mailto:rjletts@uw.edu">rjletts@uw.edu</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAP-guGV6GO0coNEjnogxgx9jZ+Mmyj03=<a href="mailto:hRdQM46_D476U2LiA@mail.gmail.com">hRdQM46_D476U2LiA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Richard J. Letts <<a href="mailto:rjletts@uw.edu">rjletts@uw.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
> If that is the case, then ARIN/We should update inter-RIR policies to only<br>
> allow transfers to registries that have substantially similar transfer<br>
> policies.<br>
<br>
Hi Richard,<br>
<br>
The plain language of the transfer policies already requires that.<br>
It's an enforcement problem: ARIN is permitting transfers anyway. I<br>
don't know what we can do about it save wagging fingers at John<br>
Curran.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Bill Herrin<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
William Herrin ................ <a href="mailto:herrin@dirtside.com">herrin@dirtside.com</a> <a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a><br>
Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <<a href="http://www.dirtside.com/" target="_blank">http://www.dirtside.com/</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 12:51:26 -0400<br>
From: William Herrin <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a>><br>
To: Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com">mike@iptrading.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] On IPv4 free pool runout and transfer policy<br>
requirements for the ARIN region<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAP-guGX9nz_H4bgK6G5jMi2SqP9zC8JJcp2JGXx1XyFEet9niw@mail.gmail.com">CAP-guGX9nz_H4bgK6G5jMi2SqP9zC8JJcp2JGXx1XyFEet9niw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Put simply: APNIC NIRs would have to comply with any global transfer policy<br>
>> as well even as ARIN ISPs are understood to be the direct customer instead.<br>
><br>
> What about when the NIR and RIR allow for outgoing transfers but a specific<br>
> country makes it illegal for their citizens to do this?<br>
<br>
Hi Mike,<br>
<br>
I don't see a useful distinction between the two, save that if the<br>
registry serves a wider community than the jurisdiction which prevents<br>
transfers, the registry might achieve compliance by preventing<br>
transfers into the jurisdiction.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Bill Herrin<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
William Herrin ................ <a href="mailto:herrin@dirtside.com">herrin@dirtside.com</a> <a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a><br>
Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <<a href="http://www.dirtside.com/" target="_blank">http://www.dirtside.com/</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
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End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 120, Issue 46<br>
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</blockquote></div>