<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:14 AM, Jason Schiller <<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" class="">jschiller@google.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Owen,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We didn't need a global policy to establish a bilateral inter RIR transfer policy with APNIC. Per ARIN policy "APNIC only requires a compatible needs based distribution mechanism”.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>Because we have the anti-flip language that this proposal seeks to eliminate.</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Why not per ARIN policy, you can transfer inside your 24 month window, ONLY IF, the org is a wholly owned subsidiary, and if the org is in an RIR region whose policy will prevent the transfer of addresses for at least the remainder of the 24 month term.</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div>I could live with that.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Owen</div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">__Jason</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 9:16 PM, Owen DeLong <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" class="">owen@delong.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">If it were enforceable, it would address my concern.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The problem is that we are then looking to have an ARIN contract enjoin an action by the organization in another RIR which I am not sure would give us any recourse whatsoever were that contract to be violated.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That’s why I didn’t propose language… I don’t think the issue in question can be unilaterally addressed, so I think we should accept that and those that are interested can begin work on a globally coordinated policy if they desire to do so.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We’ve already seen that attempting to unilaterally influence minimum policy requirements on other regions is unlikely to work. Witness RIPEs recent “workaround” to “compatible needs basis”. I am not especially interested in expanding this problem space.</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div></font></span><div class=""><div class="h5"><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 29, 2015, at 12:06 PM, Jason Schiller <<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank" class="">jschiller@google.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Owen,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div>So does this text cover your proposal then?<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class="">Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2<br class="">Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)<br class=""><br class=""></span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class="">Date: 26 May 2015</span><br style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""><br class="">Problem Statement:<br class=""><br class="">Organizations that obtain a 24 month supply of IP addresses via the<br class="">transfer market and then have an unexpected change in business plan<br class="">are unable to move IP addresses to the proper RIR within the first 12<br class="">months of receipt.<br class=""><br class="">Policy statement:<br class=""><br class="">Replace 8.4, bullet 4, to read:<br class=""><br class="">"> Source entities within the ARIN region must not have received a</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""> transfer, allocation, or assignment of </span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class="">IPv4 number resources </span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""> from ARIN for the 12 months prior to the approval of a transfer </span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""> request.<br class=""></span><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""> - This restriction does not include M&A transfers.</span><br style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""> - This restriction does not include a transfer to a wholly owned</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""> subsidiary out side of the ARIN service region</span><br style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""> if the recipient org will be required to not transfer any IP space</span><br style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""> for the remaining balance of 12 month window."</span><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class=""><br class=""></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 4:06 AM, Owen DeLong <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" class="">owen@delong.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><span class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 28, 2015, at 6:46 AM, Jason Schiller <<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank" class="">jschiller@google.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><p dir="ltr" class="">Owen,</p><p dir="ltr" class="">How does that differ from the policy text I sent?</p><p dir="ltr" class="">Can you send an idea of policy text?</p><p dir="ltr" class="">I thought the text I sent said that an ARIN org can transfer IPs out to another wholely owned subsidiary in another RIR region if they have been the recipient of transfer in less that 12 months IF the recipient org will be required (read by recipient's RIR policy) to hold the transfered resource for the balance of the 12 months.</p><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></span>Your proposal allows substitution.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">ARIN->Other RIR space A</div><div class="">Space B Other RIR-> Money/etc.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I want to see substitution transfers prohibited.</div><span class=""><font color="#888888" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div></font></span><span class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><p dir="ltr" class="">___Jason</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 28, 2015 8:31 AM, "Owen DeLong" <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution" class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Or simply not permit it under ARIN policy until such exists.<br class="">
<br class="">
Owen<br class="">
<br class="">
> On May 28, 2015, at 1:49 PM, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank" class="">jcurran@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br class="">
><br class="">
> On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank" class="">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. However, if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you can't merely use that as a way to move addresses out of flip protection to then flip them to another organization via an RIR with a less restrictive transfer policy.<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to subsequently transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an external party for at least 12 months.<br class="">
><br class="">
> That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of<br class="">
> another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that effect.<br class="">
><br class="">
> To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated transfer<br class="">
> policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy explicit<br class="">
> in this regard in determination of compatibility.<br class="">
><br class="">
> /John<br class="">
><br class="">
> John Curran<br class="">
> President and CEO<br class="">
> ARIN<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
<br class="">
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</div></blockquote></div><br class=""></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div class=""><font color="#555555" face="'courier new', monospace" class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:arial" class=""><font color="#555555" face="'courier new', monospace" class="">_______________________________________________________<br class=""></font><div class=""><font face="'courier new', monospace" class="">Jason Schiller|NetOps|<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank" class="">jschiller@google.com</a>|<a href="tel:571-266-0006" value="+15712660006" target="_blank" class="">571-266-0006</a></font></div><div class=""><font face="'courier new', monospace" class=""><br class=""></font></div></span></div></font></div>
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</div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div class="gmail_signature"><font color="#555555" face="'courier new', monospace" class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family: arial;" class=""><font color="#555555" face="'courier new', monospace" class="">_______________________________________________________<br class=""></font><div class=""><font face="'courier new', monospace" class="">Jason Schiller|NetOps|<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank" class="">jschiller@google.com</a>|571-266-0006</font></div><div class=""><font face="'courier new', monospace" class=""><br class=""></font></div></span></div></font></div>
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