<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 5:34 PM, David Huberman<span class=""> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:David.Huberman@microsoft.com" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">David.Huberman@microsoft.com</a>></span><span class=""> </span>wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">So I ask:<br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">How is RIPE and APNIC’s policy unfair, but ARIN’s policy of “you must be THIS large a network to participate” fair?<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><u></u> </p></div></blockquote><br><div class="gmail_extra">When you say "you must be THIS large a network to participate" you are talking about networks that are smaller than 61 hosts (plus a router, network address and broadcast address), and also don't have a plan to have a total of 123 hosts in one year. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">(the numbers go down a bit if you have a reason to need more subnets).</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">I ask for all posters that reference this policy being unfair to small networks, to disclose if they have less than 61 hosts, or cannot meet a plan for 123 hosts.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">This bar was intended to prevent anyone who wanted their own address space from getting it and routing it, and contributing to the global routing table.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Routing table size IS a real concern, even with current hardware. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">(and it is not just 572K IPv4 routes and the 24K IPv6 which cost between 1.9 and 2.2 times as much space, but also all of the internal routes that large networks are nice enough to aggregate for everyone, and the number of routes as a function of your architecture and peering locations)</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">How much lower of a bar would you suggest?</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Striking the 61 hosts now and leaving a promise of 123 or more in a year's time?</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Would you want to lower it 29 hosts now or 13 hosts?</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">___Jason</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 5:34 PM, David Huberman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:David.Huberman@microsoft.com" target="_blank">David.Huberman@microsoft.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72">
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<p class="MsoNormal">RIPE and APNIC policy HAVE ALWAYS ALLOWED all first-time requestors to be an LIR and get address space directly from the registry. In fact, for more than a decade, that size was defaulted to a /20. It is smaller now (a /22 I believe).
Then to get more space, you show you efficiently utilized what you have.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">At the mics at ARIN 35 just today, the large ISPs and Cablecos got up to the mic and said a policy which allows small networks to get a /24 just by asking for it is unfair.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So I ask:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">How is RIPE and APNIC’s policy unfair, but ARIN’s policy of “you must be THIS large a network to participate” fair?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What is the technical basis for not allowing small networks to get PI space?
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Decades of RIPE and APNIC policy didn’t break the internet.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">David<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>David R Huberman</b><br>
Principal, Global IP Addressing<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Microsoft Corporation<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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