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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Your proposed language is clearer in the context of policy development, but would lack clarity when placed in the NRPM as “this requirement” becomes somewhat ambiguous.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hi Owen,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>It should be read not as “this requirement” but as “this requirement set”. Maybe it should read:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'>In addition, the recipient must meet one of the following requirement-sets:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'>...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'>4.Fewer than 5,000 transfers have completed under this requirement-set<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'>?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'>Or the two requirement sets might be labeled clearly as the “Needs-tested” option and the “Needs-attested” option.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'>This comports with the current language of Line 4.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'>But so long as it is clear to everyone who considers the proposal I am fine with the current language.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'>Regards,<br>Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-color:#2E75B6;mso-style-textfill-fill-alpha:100.0%'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Owen DeLong [mailto:owen@delong.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 12, 2015 1:55 PM<br><b>To:</b> Mike Burns<br><b>Cc:</b> andrew.dul@quark.net; arin-ppml@arin.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2014-14: Needs Attestation for some IPv4 Transfers - Revised<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Mike,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Your proposed language is clearer in the context of policy development, but would lack clarity when placed in the NRPM as “this requirement” becomes somewhat ambiguous.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Owen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mar 12, 2015, at 08:08 , Mike Burns <<a href="mailto:mike@iptrading.com">mike@iptrading.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Courier'>On 2/24/2015 9:17 AM, ARIN wrote:<br style='orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Courier'>ARIN-2014-14 has been revised. This draft policy is open for<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>discussion on this mailing list.<br><br>ARIN-2014-14 is below and can be found at:<br><a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2014_14.html">https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2014_14.html</a><br><br>Regards,<br><br>Communications and Member Services<br>American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)<br><br><br>## * ##<br><br><br>Draft Policy ARIN-2014-14<br>Needs Attestation for some IPv4 Transfers<br><br>Date: 24 Feb 2015<br><br>Problem Statement:<br><br>The process of 'needs testing' or 'needs basis' allocation has evolved<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>over the history of the Internet registry system. The earliest number<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>resource policy required that an operator intend to use the number<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>resources on an operational Internet Protocol network before the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>resource would be registered to an organization. Organizations were<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>assigned either a Class A, B, or C block roughly depending on the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>organization's size. With the implementation of CIDR, additional<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>'needs testing' was done to right size allocations to fit<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>organizations. These testing requirements continued to evolve under<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>various organizations prior to the RIRs inception and then later<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>formally under the RIR's policy development process.<br><br>In the 2000s, ARIN began a systematic "trust but verify" process for<br>IPv4 requests. This was necessary due to both IPv4 address<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>registration hijackings in ARIN Whois and the accelerated amount of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>systematic fraud being perpetrated on ARIN.<br><br>As IPv4 exhaustion occurred, some RIRs have reconsidered the necessity<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>of some of the needs testing requirements and implemented policies<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>which reduced the requirements on organizations to show need or<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>utilization for some transfer transactions with the RIR.<br><br>The cost of performing a needs assessment and auditing of this<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>information vs. the public benefit of restricting allocations to<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>specifically qualified organizations has been noted by some<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>organizations to be out of alignment. The ability to predict future<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>use toward a 24-month utilization rate can also be challenging for<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>some organizations and relies on projections and estimates rather than<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>verifiable facts. Thus, the current needs testing requirements may be<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>more than is necessary and desirable for small transfers. This policy<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>seeks to reduce the complexity of transfers by removing the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>utilization needs testing requirement and replacing it with a needs<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>attestation by a corporate officer.<br><br>Additionally, other requirements are placed around the 'needs<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>attestation only' requirement to reduce the Number Resource<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>Community's concern that this type of policy could be abused for<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>speculation or hording. Furthermore, the policy includes a sunset<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>clause to limit the total number of transfers under this policy<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>proposal. This sunset is intended to force the community to reexamine<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>the success or failure of the practices contained in this policy proposal.<br><br>Policy statement:<br><br>Section 8.3<br><br>Replace the 'Conditions on recipient of the transfer' with the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>following conditions.<br><br>Conditions on recipient of the transfer:<br><br> The organization must sign an RSA.<br><br> The resources transferred will be subject to current ARIN policies.<br><br>In addition, the recipient must meet one of the following requirements<br>sets:<br><br><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:1.0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:1.0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Courier'><br>1. The organization must demonstrate the need for up to a 24-month<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>supply of IP address resources under current ARIN policies.<br><br>OR<br><br>1.The organization, its parent(s), or subsidiary organizations, must<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>not have received IPv4 address resources, via transfer, within the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>past 12 months.<br><br>2.An officer of the organization must attest that the IPv4 address<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>block is needed for and will be used on an operational network.<br><br>3.The maximum transfer size is /20.<br><br>4.Fewer than 5,000 needs attestation transfers have occurred.<br><br><br>Section 8.4<br><br>Replace the 'Conditions on recipient of the transfer' with the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>following conditions.<br><br>Conditions on recipient of the transfer:<br><br> The conditions on a recipient outside of the ARIN region will be<br> defined by the policies of the receiving RIR.<br><br> Recipients within the ARIN region will be subject to current ARIN<br> policies and sign an RSA for the resources being received.<br><br> The minimum transfer size is a /24.<br><br>In addition, the recipient must meet one of the following requirements<br>sets:<br><br>1. The organization must demonstrate the need for up to a 24-month<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>supply of IP address resources under current ARIN policies.<br><br>OR<br><br>1.The organization, its parent(s), or subsidiary organizations, must<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>not have received IPv4 address resources, via transfer, within the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>past 12 months.<br><br>2.An officer of the organization must attest that the IPv4 address<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>block is needed for and will be used on an operational network.<br><br>3.The maximum transfer size is /20.<br><br>4.Fewer than 5,000 needs attestation transfers have occurred.<br><br>Comments:<br><br>Timetable for implementation: Immediate<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>_______________________________________________<br>PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Courier'><br>Hi Andrew,<br><br>I think it would be clearer if the line:<br><br>4.Fewer than 5,000 needs attestation transfers have occurred.<br><br>Was changed to:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>4. Fewer than 5,000 transfers under this requirement set have completed.<br><br>But I would support it with the current language.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>The maximum number of addresses which could be transferred in aggregate<br>under this policy is 1.25 /8 equivalents.<br>And at the current rate of transfers this would take years.<br>Does anybody still fear damaging market manipulation could occur under this<br>policy?<br><br>Regards,<br>Mike Burns<br></span><a href="http://iptrading.com/"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Courier'>IPTrading.com</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Courier'><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (</span><a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Courier'>ARIN-PPML@arin.net</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Courier'>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br></span><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Courier'>http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</span></a><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Courier'><br>Please contact<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net"><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Courier'>info@arin.net</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Courier'> </span></span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Courier'>if you experience any issues.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>