<p dir="ltr">Re 2014-17....I support.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Rudi Daniel<br>
ICT consulting<br>
784 430 9235</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Dec 27, 2014 7:52 PM, <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-request@arin.net">arin-ppml-request@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to<br>
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: What is Open-IX and why does it matter? Was: Re: What the<br>
heck is OIX? (was RE: Draft Policy ARIN-2014-21: Modification to<br>
CI Pool Size per Section 4.4) (John Curran)<br>
2. Re: Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2014-17: Change Utilization<br>
Requirements from last-allocation to total-aggregate (Matthew Petach)<br>
3. Re: 2014-14, was Internet Fairness (Rob Seastrom)<br>
4. Re: 2014-14, was Internet Fairness (William Herrin)<br>
5. Re: What is Open-IX and why does it matter? (Milton L Mueller)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 01:25:59 +0000<br>
From: John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br>
To: Martin J Hannigan <<a href="mailto:hannigan@gmail.com">hannigan@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] What is Open-IX and why does it matter? Was:<br>
Re: What the heck is OIX? (was RE: Draft Policy ARIN-2014-21:<br>
Modification to CI Pool Size per Section 4.4)<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:3299736A-44FE-4D7F-8F2F-24C8EE622341@arin.net">3299736A-44FE-4D7F-8F2F-24C8EE622341@arin.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
On Dec 26, 2014, at 7:14 PM, Martin Hannigan <<a href="mailto:hannigan@gmail.com">hannigan@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:hannigan@gmail.com">hannigan@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 6:16 PM, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
On Dec 26, 2014, at 2:29 PM, Martin Hannigan <<a href="mailto:hannigan@gmail.com">hannigan@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:hannigan@gmail.com">hannigan@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> ...<br>
<br>
[ snip ]<br>
<br>
We?ve had this question arise in the past with other trade organizations,<br>
and have been consistent in its application, whether with regard to address<br>
policy for individual sectors of ARIN?s region or individual technologies such<br>
as hosting and wireless. Please feel free to share any recommendations<br>
from the OIX community that might be germane to address policy, but it is<br>
also advisable for those who wish to actually participate in the ARIN policy<br>
development process to do so on the PPML mailing list.<br>
<br>
Many that are part of the OIX community have already stated their aversion to joining the noise heavy mailing list in order to comment once or twice a year.<br>
<br>
Perfectly understandable, and it is fair to suppose that much of the ongoing<br>
address policy development efforts may not be of direct interest to the OIX<br>
community.<br>
<br>
As far as trade association inter communications, do you have a written guidance on this supported by the Board?<br>
<br>
The ARIN Policy Development Process (PDP) is adopted by the ARIN Board.<br>
<<a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html</a>> The PDP contains the following<br>
provisions for input -<br>
<br>
"Policy discussions in the ARIN region are conducted on the Public Policy Mail List (PPML) and via Public Policy Consultation (PPC). There are no requirements for participation other than adherence to the guidelines of behavior and decorum, and anyone interested in following the process may subscribe to the PPML or may participate without charge in Public Policy Consultations via in person or remote participation methods.?<br>
<br>
It would be good to clarify exactly how trade organizations should provide input to "ARIN" on behalf of their members and if that will not be valid - in writing. It would likely help to make the case to consider participating in other ways where there is [currently] aversion.<br>
<br>
Trade associations can expression views via the PPML mailing list or the Public<br>
Policy Consultations (which take place at ARIN and NANOG meetings). These<br>
views are considered on their merits, just as any other position posted to PPML<br>
or raised during the Public Policy consultation.<br>
<br>
In the majority of cases, a well-reasoned statement from a trade association is<br>
rather likely to influence the development of relevant address policy. If this does<br>
not turn out to be the case, then I would again recommend that the individual trade<br>
association members take a moment to express their views on the PPML mailing<br>
list. I do recognize that such participation takes a modest level of effort, but it is a<br>
fair and reasonable request if that input is going to be used as the basis for policy.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
/John<br>
<br>
John Curran<br>
President and CEO<br>
ARIN<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 06:30:29 -0800<br>
From: Matthew Petach <<a href="mailto:mpetach@netflight.com">mpetach@netflight.com</a>><br>
To: ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2014-17: Change<br>
Utilization Requirements from last-allocation to total-aggregate<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAEmG1=oxe5Ktqes9Lyh6ugbU-UE=<a href="mailto:rOCeS1fMQX6f-WoJc1_GoQ@mail.gmail.com">rOCeS1fMQX6f-WoJc1_GoQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 8:21 AM, ARIN <<a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2014-17<br>
> Change Utilization Requirements from last-allocation to total-aggregate<br>
><br>
> On 18 December 2014 the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) recommended<br>
> ARIN-2014-17 for adoption, making it a Recommended Draft Policy.<br>
><br>
> ARIN-2014-17 is below and can be found at:<br>
> <a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2014_17.html" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2014_17.html</a><br>
><br>
> You are encouraged to discuss Draft Policy 2014-17 on the PPML prior to<br>
> the upcoming ARIN Public Policy Consultation at NANOG 63 in San Antonio in<br>
> February 2015. Both the discussion on the list and at the meeting will be<br>
> used by the ARIN Advisory Council to determine the community consensus for<br>
> adopting this as policy.<br>
><br>
> The ARIN Policy Development Process can be found at:<br>
> <a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html</a><br>
><br>
> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:<br>
> <a href="https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html" target="_blank">https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html</a><br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
> Communications and Member Services<br>
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)<br>
><br>
><br>
> ## * ##<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
OMG.<br>
<br>
An ARIN policy proposal that is simple, succinct,<br>
easy to understand and implement...I love it!<br>
<br>
I support this proposal.<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
<br>
Matt<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 10:03:28 -0500<br>
From: Rob Seastrom <<a href="mailto:ppml@rs.seastrom.com">ppml@rs.seastrom.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net">andrew.dul@quark.net</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-14, was Internet Fairness<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:867fxdi18f.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com">867fxdi18f.fsf@valhalla.seastrom.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<br>
<br>
<br>
Andrew Dul <<a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net">andrew.dul@quark.net</a>> writes:<br>
<br>
> I'm not in favor of linking the fee categories to number policy.?<br>
> The fees and its categories are under the control of the board;<br>
> number policy is under control of the Internet community via the<br>
> PDP.? I believe the board's actions, to adjust fees, should not<br>
> cause changes with number policy. Andrew<br>
<br>
+1<br>
<br>
-r<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 13:52:59 -0500<br>
From: William Herrin <<a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a>><br>
To: Andrew Dul <<a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net">andrew.dul@quark.net</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-14, was Internet Fairness<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAP-guGWeX_WTqKpuTSB7rCszF6dbYXiL_UV4omF4oFfEiL6Ykw@mail.gmail.com">CAP-guGWeX_WTqKpuTSB7rCszF6dbYXiL_UV4omF4oFfEiL6Ykw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
<br>
On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Andrew Dul <<a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net">andrew.dul@quark.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> I'm not in favor of linking the fee categories to number policy. The fees<br>
> and its categories are under the control of the board; number policy is<br>
> under control of the Internet community via the PDP. I believe the board's<br>
> actions, to adjust fees, should not cause changes with number policy.<br>
<br>
Agreed. Over the course of this discussion I've heard a number of<br>
preposterous arguments for why address blocks large enough to support<br>
tens of thousands of customers and employees should be deemed "small."<br>
The arguments have nothing to do with any rational definition of small<br>
and everything to do with the inadequate support for waiving the needs<br>
basis tests for anything "large."<br>
<br>
Folks, I want to see us move away from needs testing too, but you're<br>
shooting yourselves in the foot here. It looks to me like there's real<br>
support for allowing it in the /22 and /24 neighborhoods. Not a<br>
perfect consensus but something approaching it. And if history is a<br>
guide (I'm looking at the /24 minimum assignments) success with a<br>
cautious approach offers a 2 to 3 year path to throwing the gates wide<br>
open.<br>
<br>
You can argue for /16 and /18 until you're blue in the face and get<br>
nowhere, ever, but accepting /22 puts you on a timer until /16 becomes<br>
inevitable.<br>
<br>
Be smart.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Bill Herrin<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
William Herrin ................ <a href="mailto:herrin@dirtside.com">herrin@dirtside.com</a> <a href="mailto:bill@herrin.us">bill@herrin.us</a><br>
Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <<a href="http://www.dirtside.com/" target="_blank">http://www.dirtside.com/</a>><br>
May I solve your unusual networking challenges?<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 23:51:11 +0000<br>
From: Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>><br>
To: Martin Hannigan <<a href="mailto:hannigan@gmail.com">hannigan@gmail.com</a>>, John Curran<br>
<<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>><br>
Cc: "<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] What is Open-IX and why does it matter?<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:dcb122dfeccf4b61ac3bafbd8e5442d4@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu">dcb122dfeccf4b61ac3bafbd8e5442d4@EX13-MBX-13.ad.syr.edu</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
As an AC member I would be very receptive to seeing forwarded emails from OIX (or other trade association lists) that directly comment on specific ARIN policies. I would certainly give them weight in determining community support. A formal statement from the leadership of such an association would of course be more powerful, but I think that a single OIX member acting as an informal liaison by forwarding emails would serve a very useful function.<br>
<br>
I understand perfectly why the majority of members of OIX or any other trade association would not want to join a highly specialized mailing list such as PPML. On the other hand, I am aware of the self-selection and narrowing process that can occur on these specialized lists. Therefore I think when people on the PPML bring to our attention relevant views from other communities it is extremely important and useful.<br>
<br>
--MM<br>
<br>
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] On Behalf Of Martin Hannigan<br>
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2014 7:15 PM<br>
To: John Curran<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] What is Open-IX and why does it matter? Was: Re: What the heck is OIX? (was RE: Draft Policy ARIN-2014-21: Modification to CI Pool Size per Section 4.4)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 6:16 PM, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net">jcurran@arin.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
On Dec 26, 2014, at 2:29 PM, Martin Hannigan <<a href="mailto:hannigan@gmail.com">hannigan@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:hannigan@gmail.com">hannigan@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> ...<br>
<br>
[ snip ]<br>
<br>
<br>
We've had this question arise in the past with other trade organizations,<br>
and have been consistent in its application, whether with regard to address<br>
policy for individual sectors of ARIN's region or individual technologies such<br>
as hosting and wireless. Please feel free to share any recommendations<br>
from the OIX community that might be germane to address policy, but it is<br>
also advisable for those who wish to actually participate in the ARIN policy<br>
development process to do so on the PPML mailing list.<br>
<br>
Many that are part of the OIX community have already stated their aversion to joining the noise heavy mailing list in order to comment once or twice a year. As far as trade association inter communications, do you have a written guidance on this supported by the Board? It would be good to clarify exactly how trade organizations should provide input to "ARIN" on behalf of their members and if that will not be valid - in writing. It would likely help to make the case to consider participating in other ways where there is [currently] aversion.<br>
Best,<br>
-M<<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div>