<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><br><br></div>Keith--it's a way to cite support from 3rd-party <br>elements that aren't presented here, allowing<br>one to claim support without the rest of the<br>community having an easy way to debate<br></div>or disagree with that support. Somewhat<br></div>along the same lines as Steve's appeal<br>to the sentiments of the unvoiced masses<br>of small businesses.<br><br></div>Not that I'm disparaging the work Open-IX<br>does; it's a wonderful organization. But to<br></div>cite support from unrelated mailing lists <br>seems akin to saying "but all my friends<br>on Facebook say I should be given a /8<br>without justification." It may in fact be true<br></div>that all your friends on facebook say that;<br></div>but is it relevant, and should it carry any<br>weight in the debates here? That's much<br>harder to pin down.<br><br></div>Putting it the other way around...would the<br></div>nice people on Open-IX change their rules<br></div>based on the comments that are made here?<br></div>Or would they be dismissed as not germane<br></div>to the decision? For better or for worse, I think<br>there's a strong current of "if they want their<br>voice to matter, they can come here and say<br>it where the rest of us are" present in just about<br>every purpose-specific mailing list.<br><br></div>If one were to create a mailing list of "concerned<br>small businesses advocating the propagation of<br>the internet", and on that mailing list, there was<br>unequivocal support for a flat IPv4 allocation<br>scheme; every org-ID gets a /16, regardless<br>of need (no matter how big or how small the<br></div>org), and all other space shall immediately<br>be reclaimed and redistributed to the rest<br>of the entities in the region--why, I dare say<br>we'd be quick to dismiss that mailing list<br>archive as not relevant, and not sufficient<br>evidence of community support to warrant<br></div>reclaiming massive amounts of IP space<br>from existing registrants.<br><br></div>In short (well, no, not really--I don't really seem<br>to do brevity well at all)--I think we need to be<br>very careful of accepting 3rd party support as<br>anything other than hearsay, and accord it the<br>same status as "hallway conversations" at<br>ARIN meetings; while they're nice to have,<br>and can help guide the shepherds in adjusting<br>wording of proposals, I don't think they should<br>carry any weight in the voting and decision<br>process.<br><br>Thanks!<br><br></div><div>Matt<br><br></div><div><div><div><div><div><br><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 26, 2014 at 5:21 AM, Keith W. Hare <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Keith@jcc.com" target="_blank">Keith@jcc.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Martin,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So, what the heck is OIX, and why do I care about discussions there?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">A quick web search for OIX gives me:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Open Identify Exchange<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Online Incentives Exchange<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Open Identity Exchange UK<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Open-IX Association<u></u><u></u></span></p><p><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d"><span>·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Etc.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The Urban Dictionary defines Oix as “Officially a word you are allowed to use in scrabble when you are out of letters at the very end and this is all you have left.”<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">From what I know about OIX without diving into random web pages, this definition seems the most appropriate.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Keith<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Martin Hannigan<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 25, 2014 7:27 PM<br><b>To:</b> Owen DeLong; David Farmer; Scott Leibrand<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2014-21: Modification to CI Pool Size per Section 4.4<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I'll point this list at a public viewable URL to a proper thread there. Not sure why people need to actually subscribe, either way. I also can't force (and won't advocate) people to waste their time like that on either list. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> There are AC members there. They too can report their observations back to the Politburo. I'm sure you'll be well informed. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Best,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">-M<<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On Dec 25, 2014, at 18:53, Owen DeLong <<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal">I’m not part of the OIX discussions, so I certainly won’t be considering anything from OIX that isn’t posted to PPML in any of my deliberations on policy.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Owen<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Dec 23, 2014, at 20:22 , Scott Leibrand <<a href="mailto:scottleibrand@gmail.com" target="_blank">scottleibrand@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">For future comments from OIX participants, it will also be helpful to include PPML, so any discussion of policy pros and cons can occur directly, and there isn't any further unnecessary back and forth (and potentially delays) due to inconsistent assumptions. (I saw a fair bit of that watching the two independent discussions so far.)<br><br>-Scott<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 1:22 PM David Farmer <<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">farmer@umn.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">On 12/23/14, 17:08 , Martin Hannigan wrote:<br>> On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 5:57 PM, David Farmer <<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">farmer@umn.edu</a><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">farmer@umn.edu</a>>> wrote:<br>...<br>> I went back and reviewed the thread, there was some support for the<br>> ideas that spawned the proposal, but no specific text was posted at<br>> that time. Since the Draft Policy and the specific text was posted<br>> there has now been two statements of support and no opposition.<br>><br>> Its fair to expect that the OIX commentary, documented in full public<br>> view, should count as support. That would be more than two.<br>...<br>> I'd be happy to work toward getting this to San Antonio as a<br>> Recommended Draft Policy. However, the normal path would be Draft<br>> in San Antonio and then Recommended Draft in San Francisco. So, to<br>> justify accelerating this policy we need clear and strong support<br>> from the community for this policy. Lukewarm support with no<br>> opposition is not sufficient to take this to San Antonio as a<br>> Recommended Draft Policy in my opinion as the shepherd.<br>><br>> I'm happy to cross post and invade ppml rms style with OIX. That doesn't<br>> seem necessary based on the transparency of our discussions.<br><br>Personally, I'm happy to consider OIX commentary. Would you please<br>provide me and PPML a link for the archives? Maybe a pointer to the<br>appropriate threads too.<br><br>Thanks<br><br>--<br>================================================<br>David Farmer Email: <a href="mailto:farmer@umn.edu" target="_blank">farmer@umn.edu</a><br>Office of Information Technology<br>University of Minnesota<br>2218 University Ave SE Phone: <a href="tel:1-612-626-0815" value="+16126260815" target="_blank">1-612-626-0815</a><br>Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: <a href="tel:1-612-812-9952" value="+16128129952" target="_blank">1-612-812-9952</a><br>================================================<br>_______________________________________________<br>PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" target="_blank">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net" target="_blank">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<u></u><u></u></p></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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