<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">My point is that even before that discussion, there was and always has been needs testing for IPv6.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Your claim that what they were advocating for is something new, as if IPv6 wasn't already subject to needs testing is specious.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As such, I'm not sure what would cause you to want to scream.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Owen</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 15, 2014, at 14:21 , Steven Ryerse <<a href="mailto:SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com" class="">SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">No, my request for a IPv6 /32 was fulfilled by ARIN. My IPv6 comment below was concerning discussion of a policy proposal for a past proposal.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Steven Ryerse<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">President<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">770.656.1460 - Cell<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">770.399.9099- Office<o:p class=""></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'MS Mincho'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><image001.jpg></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'MS Mincho'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">℠</span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Eclipse Networks, Inc.</span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: 0.5in;" class=""><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> Conquering Complex Networks</span></sup><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">℠</span></sup><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></sup></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Owen DeLong [<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" class="">mailto:owen@delong.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, December 15, 2014 5:14 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Steven Ryerse<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Kevin Kargel; <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">We have always had and still do have needs testing on all IPv6 allocations and assignments.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Do you know anyone who is having trouble getting the IPv6 space that they need?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Owen<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Dec 15, 2014, at 10:49 , Steven Ryerse <<a href="mailto:SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I saw folks in this Community when discussing a policy proposal earlier this year – advocating for needs testing on all IPv6 allocations. I wanted to scream when I read it! <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">As far as the Internet being different today, ARINs Mission doesn’t go out the window because of Internet changes.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Steven Ryerse</span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">President</span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338</span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">770.656.1460 - Cell</span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">770.399.9099- Office</span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'MS Mincho'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><image001.jpg></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'MS Mincho'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">℠</span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Eclipse Networks, Inc.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: 0.5in;" class=""><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> Conquering Complex Networks</span></sup><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">℠</span></sup><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Kevin Kargel<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, December 15, 2014 1:12 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">The internet is a different place now and things change and evolve over time. If a modern day entrepreneur needed IP space they would have little or no problem finding all the IPv6 space they need at little or no cost and with virtually no trouble. </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">When Jobs and Wozniak were starting up IPV4 was a different animal.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Kevin</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: blue; border-left-width: 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Steven Ryerse<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, December 15, 2014 10:16 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Bill Darte<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</span></a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">By that definition, I wonder if Jobs and Wozniak needed IP resources today for their garage - could they get them? Whether you like what they did or not they certainly have advanced the Internet. And if John and Sue are working in their garage today and need a /24 or a /22 from ARIN to further the Internet, can they get them? With today’s policies – probably not as they might not have a business plan yet, or signed contract with contractors, or gotten their funding - or any other measure of need that is currently indoctrinated in policy. What a shame! </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Steven Ryerse</span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">President</span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338</span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><a href="http://www.eclipse-networks.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">www.eclipse-networks.com</span></a></span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">770.656.1460 - Cell</span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">770.399.9099- Office</span></i><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'MS Mincho'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><image001.jpg></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'MS Mincho'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">℠</span><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Eclipse Networks, Inc.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: 0.5in;" class=""><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Trebuchet MS', sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> Conquering Complex Networks</span></sup><sup class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">℠</span></sup><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Bill Darte [<a href="mailto:billdarte@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">mailto:billdarte@gmail.com</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, December 15, 2014 6:10 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Steven Ryerse<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Jo Rhett;<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</span></a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Steven Ryerse said: <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">In my opinion this community is so caught up in making sure needs based policies are followed, that it has lost sight of the real mission of advancing the Internet. Regardless of your personal definition of need, why is some org who doesn't have a need (as currently defined by policy) now precluded from getting resources? How does that advance the Internet?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The community through ARIN is ensuring that the distribution of v4 IP addresses are according to its policies which have been and should continue to be needs-based..IMO. They are not 'caught up' in the sense that they cannot proceed...ndeed, they are doing the precise business that policy and its mission calls for. That some orgs that cannot meet the needs hurdle are denied...does not mean that others who truly have a need are not serviced. Those with clear need advance the Internet and do so demonstrably...whereas those without a demonstrable need MAY advance the Internet as well, but its a greater risk to the community and one which the community has chosen to forgo.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Bill Darte<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Steven Ryerse <<a href="mailto:SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Though it has been a few months since I made those comments, I appreciate your feedback. Your description of "walk away with someone else’s belongings" seems to indicate that somehow the use of the Internet and the IP addresses that make the use of the Internet possible, is owned by ARIN or this Community or maybe ARIN and this Community.<br class=""><br class="">I find that line of thinking about as far as one can get from the spirit of Jon Postel and the way he went about advancing the Internet. When I read the original Mission Statement for ARIN or even the current one, I don't see that "needs" are more important than the actual mission of advancement and allocation. Good stewardship should be practiced but NOT to the detriment of the mission of advancement and allocation.<br class=""><br class="">In my opinion this community is so caught up in making sure needs based policies are followed, that it has lost sight of the real mission of advancing the Internet. Regardless of your personal definition of need, why is some org who doesn't have a need (as currently defined by policy) now precluded from getting resources? How does that advance the Internet? I never met Jon Postel but from what I've heard about him, I suspect he would frown on some of the current policies regarding needs. My comments below and others I have made are intended to try to bring some balance into the discussion and my hope is that some day in the near future that will happen. I certainly don't desire there be no rules at all but the very loose rules followed by Jon Postel worked pretty well advancing the Internet. I think we could loosen the current policies like has been done in other regions and it would have a positive outcome. My two cents.<br class=""><br class="">Steven Ryerse<br class="">President<br class="">100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338<br class=""><a href="http://www.eclipse-networks.com/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">www.eclipse-networks.com</span></a><br class=""><a href="tel:770.656.1460" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">770.656.1460</span></a> - Cell<br class=""><a href="tel:770.399.9099" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">770.399.9099</span></a>- Office<br class=""><br class=""><span style="font-family: 'MS Gothic';" class="">℠</span><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Eclipse Networks, Inc.<br class=""> Conquering Complex Networks<span style="font-family: 'MS Gothic';" class="">℠</span><br class=""><br class="">-----Original Message-----<br class="">From: Jo Rhett [mailto:<a href="mailto:jrhett@netconsonance.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">jrhett@netconsonance.com</span></a>]<br class="">Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:17 AM<br class="">To: Steven Ryerse<br class="">Cc:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">arin-ppml@arin.net</span></a><br class="">Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use<br class=""><br class="">On Oct 27, 2014, at 5:23 PM, Steven Ryerse <<a href="mailto:SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com</span></a>> wrote:<br class="">> If in the spirit of trying to prevent fraud non-fraudulent requests get rejected, then Arin's mission stops being fulfilled. I think it is important to make sure the mission is respected first and stopping fraud second or third or fifth or whatever. We could stop all fraud by stopping all allocations but of course that makes no sense. I would also point out that even when fraud happens Arin's Mission is still being fulfilled.<br class=""><br class="">I completely disagree. There are dozens if not hundreds of people with non-fraudulent requests who get denied for insufficient justification. That is ARIN doing their job successfully in my mind. If widespread fraud occurs and ARIN does not take action, then I feel strongly that ARIN would not be doing their job.<br class=""><br class="">> Of course maybe if the needs tests were loosened fraud would be significantly reduced as there would be no need to submit fraudulent requests.<br class=""><br class="">Do you mean that if it were permissible to walk away with someone else’s belongings, then theft would no longer occur? Your statement is true without making any sense at all.<br class=""><br class="">> I'm sure an org willing to submit a fraudulent request would tell you that they do have a need but they may not happen to meet the current arbitrary (and they are arbitrary) policy.<br class=""><br class="">I disagree completely. ARIN’s role is to satisfy needs-based requests. Exercising judgement of whether a need is realistic is doing their job.<br class=""><br class="">The only thing arbitrary here is your desire for there to be no rules at all. Deeply amusing, but not helpful for realistic policy.<br class=""><br class="">--<br class="">Jo Rhett<br class=""><a href="tel:%2B1%20%28415%29%20999-1798" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">+1 (415) 999-1798</span></a><br class="">Skype: jorhett<br class="">Net Consonance : net philanthropy to improve open source and internet projects.<br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">PPML<br class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</span></a>).<br class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class=""><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</span></a><br class="">Please contact<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">info@arin.net</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">PPML<br class="">You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br class="">the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br class="">Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br class=""><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br class="">Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">info@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.</span></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>