<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><br><div><div>On Oct 14, 2014, at 16:16 , Ted Mittelstaedt <<a href="mailto:tedm@ipinc.net">tedm@ipinc.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br><br>On 10/14/2014 1:28 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite"><br>On Oct 13, 2014, at 19:31 , Adam Thompson<<a href="mailto:athompso@athompso.net">athompso@athompso.net</a>><br>wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. The following represents my personal<br>opinions only at this time.<br><br><br><blockquote type="cite">From a Canadian standpoint, ARIN is extremely (ridiculously!)<br>afraid of being sued in civil court.<br></blockquote>They do have to operate in the USA, however, and that country is<br>well-known for being very litigious, so perhaps this aspect of<br>ARIN's behavior is justified.<br></blockquote><br>Or perhaps ARIN should relocate to Canada or another nation within<br>the region which has a more suitable legal framework.<br><br><blockquote type="cite">In any case, the end result is that what they need as "proof" of<br>fraud is MUCH more stringent than what you might expect. They<br>cannot assume you are being truthful in reporting this fraud,<br>whether you are or not. They also cannot assume you fully<br>understand what constitutes fraud, whether you do or not.<br></blockquote><br>Regardless of litigation implications, I think it is important for<br>ARIN to exercise extreme caution in revoking resources in response to<br>a fraud report. While I agree that they may be a little too cautious,<br>I certainly don't want to see the other extreme where an<br>unsubstantiated report can result in a revocation of number<br>resources.<br></blockquote><br>Please keep in mind, Owen, the poster was complaining about ARIN's<br>apparent LACK of investigation of his fraud report. Extreme<br>caution is not the same thing as complete lack of progress of<br>investigation.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I don't believe for one second that ARIN is not investigating his report.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">You cannot make the claim that ARIN is just going slowly as a defense<br>against an accusation that ARIN isn't going at all.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Sorry, I didn't give that particular accusation sufficient credibility to respond to it.</div><div>Instead, I presumed that to be a perception issue vs. ARIN actually not moving</div><div>at a pace that would satisfy the poster.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">We all want ARIN to exercise extreme caution in revoking resources<br>in response to a fraud report.<br><br>But, there's no justification in the universe for IGNORING a fraud report, which is what the poster is saying that ARIN is doing.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>That may be his claim, but I don't believe it for a second.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">At the least, don't you think ARIN should have gotten back to the fraud<br>report submitter and confirmed receipt of the report, and asked some<br>questions to clarify aspects of the report?<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I will accept that ARIN may not have communicated as well as they should have with the reporter. Perhaps the reporter should take this issue up with Mr. Curran.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">We had a situation in my city, the story just broke as a matter of fact,<br>last week, about a group of tow truck drivers in cahoots with an<br>owner of several wrecking yards who were crushing stolen cars. A city<br>employee was also involved.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Interesting.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">This had been going on for the last 20 years or so.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Impressive.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">The story broke a week AFTER the police chief announced his resignation.<br><br>The police department and DMV and other officials involved all tried<br>to pull that BS excuse that they had been investigating it all this<br>time. But the paper that broke the story published addition info<br>showing that this was a big fat lie, they had only started an investigation a year ago.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>So you apparently had an incompetent (or worse) chief of police. Not sure what this has</div><div>to do with the current ARIN situation unless you are claiming that the ARIN staff is</div><div>similarly corrupt or incompetent (which I don't believe for a second).</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I would guess more heads will roll on this besides the police chief.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I am not sufficiently familiar to provide useful comment.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">If ARIN wants to play that game then we can look forward to ARIN<br>officials losing their jobs as well.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I seriously doubt that ARIN is playing that game. However, if it is discovered to be the</div><div>case, then I would definitely want to see everyone involved removed from their positions</div><div>or worse. It would be a huge betrayal of the community's trust.</div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Just a little food for thought.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div>I don't think there's much nutrition to be had here.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br></div></body></html>