<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">My personal opinion is that the existing 4.4 language is quite adequate for the IPv4 needs for critical infrastructure and that there is no need to rearrange these particular IPv4 deck chairs at this time.<div><br></div><div>I do not see any advantage to the proposed new language.</div><div><br></div><div>Owen</div><div><br><div><div>On Sep 22, 2014, at 11:26 AM, David Huberman <<a href="mailto:David.Huberman@microsoft.com">David.Huberman@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks for the replies, Andrew!<o:p></o:p></span></a></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Yes, that would work. It was the “not defined in other …” language which lead me to mis-read what you intended. :)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">David R Huberman<o:p></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Microsoft Corporation<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Principal, Global IP Addressing<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: windowtext;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Andrew Dul [<a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, September 22, 2014 11:22 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>David Huberman;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>; Andrew Dul<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Micro-allocation policy proposal draft<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">David,<br><br>If the last section was changed to...<br><br>Other critical infrastructure such as core DNS service providers (e.g. ICANN-sanctioned root and ccTLD operators) as well as the RIRs and IANA, may receive allocations from ARIN, when operational need can be demonstrated.<br><br>Would this alleviate your concerns?<br><br>Andrew<br><br>On 9/22/2014 11:09 AM, David Huberman wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I apologize – I wish to follow-up on my own post as I hastily composed it.</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Many years ago, Randy Bush made a point which resonated me: we want to avoid “golden networks”. We want to avoid 8.8.8.8 being designated a critical internet infrastructure service just because it’s successful. Its absence would not stop the internet from working (in this case, DNS would still resolve just fine). We want to avoid “anycast” being a “golden network”. Anycast is an engineering choice, but its existence within a platform is not mission critical. It just works better that way, maybe, but not more than that.</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">My stated concern with the new text is it opens to the door to Randy’s golden networks. I’d prefer not to, especially as I think the pre-defined list serves us well.</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">David R Huberman</span></b><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Microsoft Corporation</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Principal, Global IP Addressing</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>David Huberman<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, September 22, 2014 11:05 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">arin-ppml@arin.net</a>; Andrew Dul<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] Micro-allocation policy proposal draft</span><o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> <o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>This text concerns me:</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br>> Other critical infrastructure which is not defined in other sub-sections of section 4.4,</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> may receive allocations from ARIN, when operational need can be demonstrated. </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Can you please give us a real-world example? The pre-defined list of critical operators has served us well over 17 years. I've never seen nor heard of something that's truly critical to the operation of the internet that isn't in this list that has petitioned ARIN and failed. I'm loathe to change it.</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>PPML<br>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br><a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>Please contact<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:info@arin.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">info@arin.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if you experience any issues.</div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>