<div dir="ltr">Leslie,<div><br></div><div>Would it be possible to list the number of Org IDs that hold a given amount of /24 equivalents of ARIN IP space?</div><div><br></div><div>Something like:</div><div><br></div><div>
Number of Orgs /24 equ </div><div> 60 1</div><div> 30 2</div><div> 49 3</div><div> 100 4</div><div> 22 7</div>
<div> 432 8 </div><div><br></div><div>I think this may be a useful number in understanding how "incidental" a /20 is.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div><br></div><div>__Jason </div>
<div><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 10:14 AM, Jason Schiller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank">jschiller@google.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>I oppose as written, but support the concept.</div>(I oppose this version more that the previous version)<br>
<br>I still have concerns about the hard limit of and IPv4 /20, IPv6 /36 or two ASNs. <br><br>
I think the point here is to ensure that organizations are not double counting equipment to get resources from multiple RIRs for the same use, nor squatting on underutilized IP space from another RIR which could be used and instead getting additional IP space from ARIN.<br>
<br>There was some idea in the original policy that this additional burden could be avoided if the out of region use was only "incidental", yielding this /20 text. I argued that a hard limit of a /20 is not a fair dividing line for incidental. Many small organizations will never need more that a /20. Such a large hard limit suggests that the need to prove no double counting or no sitting on underutilized resources from another RIR does not apply to small sites. Either make it a percentage of total such "When a request for resources from ARIN is justified by need located within another RIR’s service region and is more than 5% of the total utilization, the requesting organization will also report to ARIN the utilization status of all resources of the same type held with any other RIR that are used or are available for use within the requested service region." Or simply always require it. If the organization does not have resources in other RIRs, there is no burden.<br>
<br><br>The original proposal suggested that when ARIN validates an out of region use, they must be able to validate the use to no less than an equivalent standard as resources used within the ARIN region. This is with respect to ensuring the utilization is nor fraudulent, such as if the customer service address is a verifiable address, if the company name is an actual company, and so on. <br>
<br>This proposal seems to go further and suggest that any ARIN space and other RIR space must be efficiently utilized by ARIN's definition of efficient utilization.<div><br><br>"The report must demonstrate that all resources currently available for use within the requested service region are efficiently utilized based on applicable ARIN policy."<br>
<br></div>If all the RIRs passed a similar policy global networks would be forced to follow the most strict polices of all the RIRs. In some cases the conflicting requirements could not be met. We had this discussion with the original proposal to prevent out of region use. Furthermore is flies in the face that regional communities have some regional autonomy to deal with local differences.<br>
<br><br>I believe I could get on board with the following two changes: <br><br>1. If you drop the hard limit either making it a percentage of total use, or always require reporting of usage of IP space held by other RIRs<br>
<br>2. change " The report must demonstrate that all resources currently available for use within the requested service region are efficiently utilized based on applicable ARIN policy." to some text about ARIN validating out of region space no less than an equivalent standard. possibly "All ARIN registered resources used outside the region must be verified to no less than an equivalent standard as resources used within the ARIN region."<br>
<div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>___Jason</div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Sweeting, John <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:john.sweeting@twcable.com" target="_blank">john.sweeting@twcable.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>
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<div>Good morning PPML,</div>
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<div>Please provide comments in support or opposition as the plan is to vote to move this to Recommended Draft Status for the Baltimore meeting.</div>
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<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>John</div><div><div>
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<div>On 7/25/14, 2:29 AM, "Milton L Mueller" <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">At the Chicago meeting there was support for this policy but also calls for simplifying and shortening it. This is the revised version.
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<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Draft Policy ARIN-2014-1<br>
Out of Region Use<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Date: 21 July 2014<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;color:black">Problem statement:</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;color:black">Current policy neither clearly forbids nor clearly permits out of region use of ARIN registered resources. This has created confusion and controversy within the ARIN community
for some time. Earlier work on this issue has restricting out of region use in various ways. None of these proposals have gained consensus. The next logical option is to discuss a proposal that clearly permits out of region use. Permitting out of region use,
however, poses issues that have to be addressed by policy and adjustments to operational practice. Out of region use must be clearly defined and any operational practices based on that definition must not be unnecessarily burdensome. Also, it is more difficult
and costly for ARIN staff to independently verify the justification and utilization of resources that are used outside of the ARIN service region. There needs to be recognition of this difference in policy and associated operational practices.</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;color:black">Policy statement:</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;color:black">Create new Section X;</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">X. Out of region use<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">ARIN registered resources may be used outside the ARIN service region and such use is valid justification for new or additional resources. A resource is considered
to be used outside the region if it exclusively serves a user, customer or technical infrastructure location outside the ARIN service region.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">The services and facilities used to justify the need for ARIN resources that will be used out of region should not also be used to justify resource requests from another
RIR. When a request for resources from ARIN is justified by need located within another RIR’s service region and is more than the equivalent of a /20 for IPv4, a /36 for IPv6, or two (2) ASNs, the requesting organization will also report to ARIN the utilization
status of all resources of the same type held with any other RIR that are used or are available for use within the requested service region. The organization will also supply any additional supporting documentation requested by ARIN regarding the need for
the reported resources. The report must demonstrate that all resources currently available for use within the requested service region are efficiently utilized based on applicable ARIN policy.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial"><font color="#555555" face="'courier new', monospace">_______________________________________________________<br></font><div><font face="'courier new', monospace">Jason Schiller|NetOps|<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank">jschiller@google.com</a>|<a href="tel:571-266-0006" value="+15712660006" target="_blank">571-266-0006</a></font></div>
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</font><div><font face="'courier new', monospace">Jason Schiller|NetOps|<a href="mailto:jschiller@google.com" target="_blank">jschiller@google.com</a>|<a href="tel:571-266-0006" value="+15712660006" target="_blank">571-266-0006</a></font></div>
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