<div dir="ltr">Hi Steven,<div>To quote John earlier in this exact thread:</div><div><div>   As far as the staff can determine, 2014-13 will not impact ability for parties to obtain larger</div><div>   blocks, as the established criteria and guidelines for initial requests larger than /24 will still</div>
<div>   be used.  It would definitely allow issuance of address space (of /24 size) to organizations </div><div>   that would presently not qualify under current number resource policy</div></div><div><br></div><div>There doesn't seem to be any ambiguity in that. Is there anything you can provide this community to back up your concerns? Or does this remove any concerns you have?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Christoph</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Steven Ryerse <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com" target="_blank">SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">While I am concerned that my policy proposal would be affected, my larger concern is that this policy will make it harder for smaller organizations in practice
 to receive allocations at the low end of the scale right above a /24. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Steven Ryerse<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">President<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:770.656.1460" value="+17706561460" target="_blank">770.656.1460</a> - Cell<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:770.399.9099" value="+17703999099" target="_blank">770.399.9099</a>- Office<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><img width="56" height="37" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CFA286.76A2ECA0" alt="Description: Description: Eclipse Networks Logo_small.png"></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#1f497d">℠</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Eclipse Networks, Inc.</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in">^{<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">        Conquering Complex Networks</span>}^{<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">℠</span>}^{<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span>}</p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Owen DeLong [mailto:<a href="mailto:owen@delong.com" target="_blank">owen@delong.com</a>]
<br></span></p><div class="">
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 17, 2014 5:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Steven Ryerse<br>
</div><b>Cc:</b> John Curran; Kevin Blumberg; <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN 2014-13<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Member of the AC hat on (though not speaking on behalf of the AC):<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If this proposal gains traction and 2014-13 is adopted, the AC and the community can make the necessary adjustments to it in light of 2014-13 if 2014-13 is adopted.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Changing 2014-13 so substantially at this time would only serve to delay its potential implementation without actually benefiting this proposal. If such a range is desired to go with this proposal, the necessary changes can be added to
 this proposal without significant difficulty.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">AC hat off -- Speaking only as myself and a member of the community at large:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I fail to see the logic in establishing a "minimum range". A minimum is just that... A minimum. Anything larger than the minimum is not the minimum, so a minimum range is a minimum and some other numbers that happen to be larger than the
 minimum.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Even if 2014-13 were somehow modified and we were able to work past the lexical cognitive dissonance inherent in the idea of a "minimum range", I don't see how this proposal would work without significant modification to deal with the issue
 of how a request is mapped to a particular "minimum" within the "minimum range" that applies by as yet unspecified criteria.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Perhaps if you could clarify how you see this idea of a "minimum range" working and how it could actually be implemented or what it is you hope having such a thing would provide that the existing policy and/or 2014-13 does not provide,
 it would be helpful.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Owen<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 13, 2014, at 10:39 , Steven Ryerse <<a href="mailto:SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com" target="_blank">SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Its more complicated than that.  I’ve submitted the proposed policy change below to the AC.  Obviously at this early stage I don’t know if the Community will
 accept this or not but 2014-13 complicates this proposal.  That is part of the reason why I suggested changing 2014-13 to specify a range rather than a fixed allocation.  I would be fine with having this proposal included with 2014-13 if the AC though that
 made sense.  Otherwise it can remain separate. </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">TEMPLATE: ARIN-POLICY-PROPOSAL-TEMPLATE-3.0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">1. Policy Proposal Name: Simplifying Minimum Allocations and Assignments</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">2. Proposal Originator</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   a. name: Steven Ryerse</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   b. email:<span> </span><a href="mailto:SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">SRyerse@eclipse-networks.com</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   c. telephone: <a href="tel:770.656.1460" value="+17706561460" target="_blank">770.656.1460</a> (c) <a href="tel:770.399.9099" value="+17703999099" target="_blank">770.399.9099</a> (w)</span><u></u><u></u></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   d. organization: Eclipse Networks Inc.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">3. Date: 06-JUN-2014</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">4. Problem Statement:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   New and small organizations are having a difficult time receiving</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   resource allocations from ARIN because of the economic, administrative</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   and time burdens of making their way through ARIN's needs testing</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   process. For small allocations, the burdens of needs testing may</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   exceed the value of the resources, or may deter small, less</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   well-funded organizations' ability to receive an allocation from ARIN.</span><u></u><u></u></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   As ARIN was created to provide Internet resources to ALL organizations</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   within its geographic territory, this disparity in the Policy Manual</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   needs to be addressed.  The problem can be remedied by removing needs</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   testing for any organization that applies to receive the current</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   minimum block size allocation.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">5. Policy statement:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   "A Minimum IP allocation size(s) has been defined per Section 4 of</span><u></u><u></u></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   the ARIN Number Resource Policy Manual.  Regardless of any policy</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   requirement(s) defined in any other active Section of the Policy</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   Manual, all organizations may apply and shall automatically qualify</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   for the current Minimum IP Block Allocation upon completing the</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   normal administrative application process and fee requirements, and</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   all organizations shall be eligible for such an allocation once</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   every 12 months.  Where this is in conflict with any other Section</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   in the Policy Manual, this Section shall be controlling."</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">6. Comments:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   a. Timetable for implementation: Immediate</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">   b. Anything else:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Steven Ryerse</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">President</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.eclipse-networks.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">www.eclipse-networks.com</span></a></span></i><u></u><u></u></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:770.656.1460" value="+17706561460" target="_blank">770.656.1460</a> - Cell</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:770.399.9099" value="+17703999099" target="_blank">770.399.9099</a>- Office</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><image001.jpg></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"MS Mincho";color:#1f497d">℠</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Eclipse
 Networks, Inc.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in">^{<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">        Conquering Complex Networks</span>}^{<span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">℠</span>}<u></u><u></u></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">John
 Curran [<a href="mailto:jcurran@arin.net" target="_blank">mailto:jcurran@arin.net</a>]<span> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Sunday, July 13, 2014 8:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span> </span>Kevin Blumberg<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span> </span>Steven Ryerse; <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net" target="_blank">
arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN 2014-13</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 12, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Kevin Blumberg <<a href="mailto:kevinb@thewire.ca" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">kevinb@thewire.ca</span></a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I’ve double checked with staff and this proposal will not make allocations or assignments larger than /24 more difficult than today.  </span><u></u><u></u></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">In the revised section 4.2.1.5 Minimum allocation the text allows for /24 and larger prefixes, it isn’t limited to only a /24.</span><u></u><u></u></p>

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<p class="MsoNormal">Correct.  An updated staff assessment is forthcoming which adds the sentence:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">"If implemented, staff would continue using these well established criteria and <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> guidelines for initial requests larger than /24."<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">FYI,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">/John<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">John Curran<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">President and CEO<u></u><u></u></p>
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