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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">As the current AC shepherd of this
draft, I'm all for bringing this to Baltimore if there is
something substantial to discuss. However, there is a lot of time
between now and the next PPM time which we could use on the
mailing-list to get to a better understanding of the issues
surrounding the problem statement and crafting updated policy
language to solve the problem. IMO, we shouldn't just "punt" to
the next PPM. Everyone should also realize that time to discuss
this in person will be greatly limited at the PPM by the current
large docket of draft policies now before the community.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
On 6/16/2014 11:19 AM, Jeffrey Lyon wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACrmG8eExzK5BpxmD31vGPejBCf5eFWWDd0qvRSgqR71VeBfng@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Agreed re Baltimore</p>
<p dir="ltr">Thanks, Jeff</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 16, 2014 2:13 PM, "David Huberman"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:David.Huberman@microsoft.com">David.Huberman@microsoft.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
I believe we should discuss in Baltimore in front of a more
substantial audience. There are by enough people participating
here, in my opinion, for any "sense of the room" to make
sense.<br>
<br>
David R Huberman<br>
Microsoft Corporation<br>
Senior IT/OPS Program Manager (GFS)<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>>
on behalf of Andrew Dul <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net">andrew.dul@quark.net</a>><br>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 10:53:15 AM<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy discussion - Method of
calculating utilization ARIN-2014-17<br>
<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
I sent a longer summary of where this policy discussion is
last week,<br>
I've pasted a link below to that message in the archive.<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2014-June/028654.html"
target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2014-June/028654.html</a><br>
<br>
In general, I would say that this draft policy is stalled at
this<br>
point. The 80% utilization policy underpins a large majority
of the<br>
current policies and thus is a substantial change. There have
been a<br>
few people who have voiced their support, but not enough that
I believe<br>
would allow this policy to move forward as a recommended draft
at this<br>
point.<br>
<br>
I would also point out that they current policy also
constrains larger<br>
providers but in a different way as ARIN is now more closely
enforcing<br>
the current policy of "efficiently utilized all previous
allocations"<br>
(4.2.4.1) as noted during the NANOG PPC.<br>
<br>
Leif, I don't think there is an easy scaling algorithm to
apply to<br>
utilization. The problem with a scaling algorithm is it
likely will be<br>
perceived as "unfair" by organizations on one side of the size<br>
continuum. (We tried HD ratio for v6 and that was not easily<br>
understood, and lead to lots of confusion.)<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/13/2014 4:33 PM, Leif Sawyer wrote:<br>
> I was really hoping somebody would suggest, perhaps, some
sort<br>
> of easy-to-apply scaling algorithm so that it makes it
easier for<br>
> the smaller guys to get the space they need, but harder
for the bigger<br>
> guys to game the system.<br>
><br>
> I'm sure there's some sort of curve that fits, but my
advanced maths<br>
> are limited to Pythagoras.<br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]
On Behalf Of Jeffrey Lyon<br>
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 2:41 PM<br>
> To: Tim Gimmel<br>
> Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a> List<br>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy discussion - Method of
calculating utilization<br>
><br>
> Tim,<br>
><br>
> I am also uncertain of the current status but would like
to see some progress.<br>
><br>
> Thanks, Jeff<br>
><br>
> On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 5:50 AM, Tim Gimmel <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Tim.Gimmel@metronetinc.com">Tim.Gimmel@metronetinc.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>> I not really sure where this policy discussion is at
the moment, but I want to assert the current method places a
strain on small carriers just trying to do business. We are
in the process of implementing IPv6, but is will be a long
journey.<br>
>> Overall I am way past 80% utilization, but because my
last allocation (and this is based on actual usage, not just
what has been 'swiped') has not yet reached 80% we are
practically stymied.<br>
>><br>
>> Tim's 2 cents!<br>
>><br>
>> Tim<br>
>><br>
>> Tim Gimmel<br>
>> Metronet | Senior Network Engineer<br>
>> 3701 Communications Way | Evansville, IN 47715<br>
>> Office: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:812.456.4750" value="+18124564750">812.456.4750</a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.MetronetInc.com" target="_blank">www.MetronetInc.com</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]<br>
>>> On Behalf Of Owen DeLong<br>
>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 8:14 PM<br>
>>> To: Jeffrey Lyon<br>
>>> Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a> List<br>
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy discussion -
Method of calculating<br>
>>> utilization<br>
>>><br>
>>> While I support Jeffry's proposal for changing
the calculation<br>
>>> method, in terms of changing the threshold, I'd
like to say that I<br>
>>> really think it is time to stop trying to
re-arrange the IPv4 deck<br>
>>> chairs and get on board the IPv6 luxury liners
that have come to<br>
>>> rescue us from the sinking IPv4 ship.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Owen<br>
>>><br>
>>> On May 2, 2014, at 6:04 PM, Jeffrey Lyon<br>
>>> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net">jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net</a>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Jimmy Hess
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mysidia@gmail.com">mysidia@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 7:33 PM, John
Santos <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:JOHN@egh.com">JOHN@egh.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>> On Fri, 2 May 2014, Jimmy Hess wrote:<br>
>>>>>> I think 95% is too high, if the
previous example of 3 /24's at<br>
>>>>>> 100% and<br>
>>>>>> 1 /24 at 75% is realistic. That
works out to 93.75% aggregate<br>
>>>>>> utilization, not quite reaching the
bar, so 90% might be a better<br>
>>> threshold.<br>
>>>>> For 3 /24s yes. The difficulty
here, is trying to pick a single<br>
>>>>> utilization proportion that works
regardless of the aggregate<br>
>>>>> allocation size, to allow for the loss of
the oddball /26 or /27 that<br>
>>>>> can neither be returned nor reused,
perhaps another method is in<br>
>>>>> order than presuming a single
aggregate utilization criterion is<br>
>>>>> the most proper.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> The more resources you are allocated,
the more opportunity to make<br>
>>>>> your resource allocation efficient. By
the time you get down to a<br>
>>>>> /26, an entire /24 is less than 0.4%.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Aggregate Resources Allocated
Required Aggregate<br>
>>>>> Utilization criterion<br>
>>>>> more than a /25
75%<br>
>>>>> more than a /22,
80%<br>
>>>>> more than a /20
85%<br>
>>>>> more than a /19
90%<br>
>>>>> more than a /18
95%<br>
>>>>> more than a /17
97%<br>
>>>>> more than a /16
98%<br>
>>>>> more than a /15
99%<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> OTOH, /24's are pretty small and
maybe that example was just for<br>
>>>>>> illustration. If people really in
this situation have much<br>
>>>>>> larger allocations, they would be
easier to slice and dice and<br>
>>>>>> thus use<br>
>>>>>> (relatively) efficiently. 75% of a
/24 leaves just 64 addresses<br>
>>>>>> (a<br>
>>>>>> /26) unused, which even if contiguous
are hard to redeploy for<br>
>>>>>> some other use. 75% of a /16 would
leave 16384 unused addresses,<br>
>>>>>> which<br>
>>> could be utilized much more easily.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Personally, I don't much care since
my company has its /24, and<br>
>>>>>> that's probably all the IPv4 we'll
ever need :-)<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>> John Santos<br>
>>>>>> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.<br>
>>>>>> 781-861-0670 ext 539<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> --<br>
>>>>> -JH<br>
>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> PPML<br>
>>>>> You are receiving this message because
you are subscribed to the<br>
>>>>> ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list
subscription at:<br>
>>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>>> Please contact <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you
experience any issues.<br>
>>>> Jimmy,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I would not support scaling this beyond 80%
except at the larger<br>
>>>> allocation levels (eg. perhaps /17 and
shorter, aggregate).<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> As a practical matter I believe these
measures should be handled as<br>
>>>> separate policy proposals. The current
proposal should be limited<br>
>>>> to the calculation method and perhaps you
could write a new<br>
>>>> proposal if you wanted to change the
utilization threshold?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Thanks,<br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Jeffrey A. Lyon, CISSP-ISSMP<br>
>>>> Fellow, Black Lotus Communications<br>
>>>> mobile: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%28757%29%20304-0668" value="+17573040668">(757)
304-0668</a> | gtalk: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jeffrey.lyon@gmail.com">jeffrey.lyon@gmail.com</a>
| skype:<br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://blacklotus.net" target="_blank">blacklotus.net</a>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>> PPML<br>
>>>> You are receiving this message because you
are subscribed to the<br>
>>>> ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list
subscription at:<br>
>>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>> Please contact <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you
experience any issues.<br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> PPML<br>
>>> You are receiving this message because you are
subscribed to the ARIN<br>
>>> Public Policy Mailing List (<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list
subscription at:<br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>> Please contact <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you
experience any issues.<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> PPML<br>
>> You are receiving this message because you are
subscribed to the ARIN<br>
>> Public Policy Mailing List (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription
at:<br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>> Please contact <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you
experience any issues.<br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Jeffrey A. Lyon, CISSP-ISSMP<br>
> Fellow, Black Lotus Communications<br>
> mobile: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%28757%29%20304-0668" value="+17573040668">(757)
304-0668</a> | gtalk: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jeffrey.lyon@gmail.com">jeffrey.lyon@gmail.com</a>
| skype: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://blacklotus.net" target="_blank">blacklotus.net</a>
_______________________________________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed
to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a
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> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
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> Please contact <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you
experience any issues.<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed
to<br>
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a
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> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
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href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml"
target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
> Please contact <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you
experience any issues.<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PPML<br>
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
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Please contact <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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_______________________________________________<br>
PPML<br>
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
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href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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