<p dir="ltr">Agreed re Baltimore</p>
<p dir="ltr">Thanks, Jeff</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 16, 2014 2:13 PM, "David Huberman" <<a href="mailto:David.Huberman@microsoft.com">David.Huberman@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
I believe we should discuss in Baltimore in front of a more substantial audience. There are by enough people participating here, in my opinion, for any "sense of the room" to make sense.<br>
<br>
David R Huberman<br>
Microsoft Corporation<br>
Senior IT/OPS Program Manager (GFS)<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> <<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>> on behalf of Andrew Dul <<a href="mailto:andrew.dul@quark.net">andrew.dul@quark.net</a>><br>
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 10:53:15 AM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy discussion - Method of calculating utilization ARIN-2014-17<br>
<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
I sent a longer summary of where this policy discussion is last week,<br>
I've pasted a link below to that message in the archive.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2014-June/028654.html" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2014-June/028654.html</a><br>
<br>
In general, I would say that this draft policy is stalled at this<br>
point. The 80% utilization policy underpins a large majority of the<br>
current policies and thus is a substantial change. There have been a<br>
few people who have voiced their support, but not enough that I believe<br>
would allow this policy to move forward as a recommended draft at this<br>
point.<br>
<br>
I would also point out that they current policy also constrains larger<br>
providers but in a different way as ARIN is now more closely enforcing<br>
the current policy of "efficiently utilized all previous allocations"<br>
(4.2.4.1) as noted during the NANOG PPC.<br>
<br>
Leif, I don't think there is an easy scaling algorithm to apply to<br>
utilization. The problem with a scaling algorithm is it likely will be<br>
perceived as "unfair" by organizations on one side of the size<br>
continuum. (We tried HD ratio for v6 and that was not easily<br>
understood, and lead to lots of confusion.)<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/13/2014 4:33 PM, Leif Sawyer wrote:<br>
> I was really hoping somebody would suggest, perhaps, some sort<br>
> of easy-to-apply scaling algorithm so that it makes it easier for<br>
> the smaller guys to get the space they need, but harder for the bigger<br>
> guys to game the system.<br>
><br>
> I'm sure there's some sort of curve that fits, but my advanced maths<br>
> are limited to Pythagoras.<br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Lyon<br>
> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 2:41 PM<br>
> To: Tim Gimmel<br>
> Cc: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a> List<br>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy discussion - Method of calculating utilization<br>
><br>
> Tim,<br>
><br>
> I am also uncertain of the current status but would like to see some progress.<br>
><br>
> Thanks, Jeff<br>
><br>
> On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 5:50 AM, Tim Gimmel <<a href="mailto:Tim.Gimmel@metronetinc.com">Tim.Gimmel@metronetinc.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> I not really sure where this policy discussion is at the moment, but I want to assert the current method places a strain on small carriers just trying to do business. We are in the process of implementing IPv6, but is will be a long journey.<br>
>> Overall I am way past 80% utilization, but because my last allocation (and this is based on actual usage, not just what has been 'swiped') has not yet reached 80% we are practically stymied.<br>
>><br>
>> Tim's 2 cents!<br>
>><br>
>> Tim<br>
>><br>
>> Tim Gimmel<br>
>> Metronet | Senior Network Engineer<br>
>> 3701 Communications Way | Evansville, IN 47715<br>
>> Office: <a href="tel:812.456.4750" value="+18124564750">812.456.4750</a><br>
>> <a href="http://www.MetronetInc.com" target="_blank">www.MetronetInc.com</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>> From: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net">arin-ppml-bounces@arin.net</a>]<br>
>>> On Behalf Of Owen DeLong<br>
>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 8:14 PM<br>
>>> To: Jeffrey Lyon<br>
>>> Cc: <a href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a> List<br>
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy discussion - Method of calculating<br>
>>> utilization<br>
>>><br>
>>> While I support Jeffry's proposal for changing the calculation<br>
>>> method, in terms of changing the threshold, I'd like to say that I<br>
>>> really think it is time to stop trying to re-arrange the IPv4 deck<br>
>>> chairs and get on board the IPv6 luxury liners that have come to<br>
>>> rescue us from the sinking IPv4 ship.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Owen<br>
>>><br>
>>> On May 2, 2014, at 6:04 PM, Jeffrey Lyon<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net">jeffrey.lyon@blacklotus.net</a>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Jimmy Hess <<a href="mailto:mysidia@gmail.com">mysidia@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 7:33 PM, John Santos <<a href="mailto:JOHN@egh.com">JOHN@egh.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>> On Fri, 2 May 2014, Jimmy Hess wrote:<br>
>>>>>> I think 95% is too high, if the previous example of 3 /24's at<br>
>>>>>> 100% and<br>
>>>>>> 1 /24 at 75% is realistic. That works out to 93.75% aggregate<br>
>>>>>> utilization, not quite reaching the bar, so 90% might be a better<br>
>>> threshold.<br>
>>>>> For 3 /24s yes. The difficulty here, is trying to pick a single<br>
>>>>> utilization proportion that works regardless of the aggregate<br>
>>>>> allocation size, to allow for the loss of the oddball /26 or /27 that<br>
>>>>> can neither be returned nor reused, perhaps another method is in<br>
>>>>> order than presuming a single aggregate utilization criterion is<br>
>>>>> the most proper.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> The more resources you are allocated, the more opportunity to make<br>
>>>>> your resource allocation efficient. By the time you get down to a<br>
>>>>> /26, an entire /24 is less than 0.4%.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Aggregate Resources Allocated Required Aggregate<br>
>>>>> Utilization criterion<br>
>>>>> more than a /25 75%<br>
>>>>> more than a /22, 80%<br>
>>>>> more than a /20 85%<br>
>>>>> more than a /19 90%<br>
>>>>> more than a /18 95%<br>
>>>>> more than a /17 97%<br>
>>>>> more than a /16 98%<br>
>>>>> more than a /15 99%<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> OTOH, /24's are pretty small and maybe that example was just for<br>
>>>>>> illustration. If people really in this situation have much<br>
>>>>>> larger allocations, they would be easier to slice and dice and<br>
>>>>>> thus use<br>
>>>>>> (relatively) efficiently. 75% of a /24 leaves just 64 addresses<br>
>>>>>> (a<br>
>>>>>> /26) unused, which even if contiguous are hard to redeploy for<br>
>>>>>> some other use. 75% of a /16 would leave 16384 unused addresses,<br>
>>>>>> which<br>
>>> could be utilized much more easily.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Personally, I don't much care since my company has its /24, and<br>
>>>>>> that's probably all the IPv4 we'll ever need :-)<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>> John Santos<br>
>>>>>> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.<br>
>>>>>> 781-861-0670 ext 539<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> --<br>
>>>>> -JH<br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> PPML<br>
>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the<br>
>>>>> ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
>>>>> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
>>>> Jimmy,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I would not support scaling this beyond 80% except at the larger<br>
>>>> allocation levels (eg. perhaps /17 and shorter, aggregate).<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> As a practical matter I believe these measures should be handled as<br>
>>>> separate policy proposals. The current proposal should be limited<br>
>>>> to the calculation method and perhaps you could write a new<br>
>>>> proposal if you wanted to change the utilization threshold?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Thanks,<br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Jeffrey A. Lyon, CISSP-ISSMP<br>
>>>> Fellow, Black Lotus Communications<br>
>>>> mobile: <a href="tel:%28757%29%20304-0668" value="+17573040668">(757) 304-0668</a> | gtalk: <a href="mailto:jeffrey.lyon@gmail.com">jeffrey.lyon@gmail.com</a> | skype:<br>
>>>> <a href="http://blacklotus.net" target="_blank">blacklotus.net</a> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> PPML<br>
>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the<br>
>>>> ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
>>>> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> PPML<br>
>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN<br>
>>> Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> PPML<br>
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN<br>
>> Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
>> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
>> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Jeffrey A. Lyon, CISSP-ISSMP<br>
> Fellow, Black Lotus Communications<br>
> mobile: <a href="tel:%28757%29%20304-0668" value="+17573040668">(757) 304-0668</a> | gtalk: <a href="mailto:jeffrey.lyon@gmail.com">jeffrey.lyon@gmail.com</a> | skype: <a href="http://blacklotus.net" target="_blank">blacklotus.net</a> _______________________________________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
> <a href="http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml" target="_blank">http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml</a><br>
> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> PPML<br>
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to<br>
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (<a href="mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net">ARIN-PPML@arin.net</a>).<br>
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:<br>
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> Please contact <a href="mailto:info@arin.net">info@arin.net</a> if you experience any issues.<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
PPML<br>
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</blockquote></div>